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Ballistic rockets and massacring people at music festivals don't either. There's no moral high ground here so don't even pretend there is one.

by dgxyz 6mo ago

bongripper 6mo ago
[dead]
close04 6mo ago
That's a crazy way to defend an ongoing genocide. The scale is so different that the only way to miss it is willful bad faith. How long and how far do you go with that justification? Does it work the other way too? Are "their" actions justified forever because of something wrong that was done to them? Can anyone in the world do to you anything and everything forever if they were ever wronged by someone born in the same general geographic area as you? Whenever you find yourself defending any genocide, under any excuse, defending the killing of innocent children because some other guys from the same general area also killed people, you are the bigger problem and no amount of fresh accounts justifying it makes you better.
- dgxyz 6mo ago
  I didn't defend. I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards and I refuse to take a moral position and support or defend them for it. That in itself is an abhorrent position and I am disgusted at anyone who takes it. And further extrapolation as you edited it, if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing, then they are legally combatants. But it makes a good statistical and PR job which is just as abhorrent. Legally and statistically speakingh, children... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2FezhJgqA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2FezhJgqA I would not do this to MY children.
  - close04 6mo ago
    > I didn't defend. Didn't you? > if a child has a gun pointing at your head That sure sounds like defending the killing of children because for sure they were all holding a gun and trying to kill you. Including the babies. If you show all the YouTube videos in the world, the moment when you find a justification to kill any innocent children is when you become irreversibly the problem.
    - dgxyz 6mo ago
      No I didn't. Your second point literally makes no sense and is based on the straw man that babies are holding guns where I made no point even related to that or collateral kills (which are unacceptable). Secondarily my point is based on internationally legal definitions of combatant and evidenced with a video of combatants being trained. Not like the UN and UNICEF haven't been all over this for decades. Don't use child soldiers and you won't get statistically significant child casualties.
  - Saline9515 6mo ago
    > I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards So, like Israeli soldiers?[0] > if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing Israelis do exactly the same[1] As long as Israelis rely on violence, war crimes and human rights violations, there can be no deescalation. We see it in the current ceasefire, where Israelis refused to stop their annexation war (and flattening) of Liban. [0]https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-protesters-rally-for-the-right-to-rape-prisoners https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-p... [1]https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170708-israel-gives-settler-children-firearms-training/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170708-israel-gives-sett...
    - dgxyz 6mo ago
      See my other comments. I'm not defending them either. I am defending facts and stating there is no moral high ground.
      - Saline9515 6mo ago
        Yes, although Israel has the power to deescalate, but hasn't done it. They also have a lot more power to inflict suffering to civilian populations. So complaining about it while continuing to bomb civilians with white phosphore is rather hypocritical and cruel.
Saline9515 6mo ago
https://archive.ph/Gsw1y https://archive.ph/Gsw1y Hamas didn't have prior knowledge of the festival, and partygoers were also murdered by the Israeli army. And in general flattening entire cities don't leave their habitants very keen toward Israel either. It just reinforces the cycle of aggression, which allows Israel to take more land.
- dgxyz 6mo ago
  So that's ok then?
  - Saline9515 6mo ago
    No it's not ok, if the goal is peace and not the achievement of the "Greater Israel" that the current religious far-right in power is pursuing, with the support of the zionist christians in the US.
nielsbot 6mo ago
Genocide, apartheid, and 50 years of terrorism murder of children, destruction of hospitals, churches, schools, universities and imprisonment of a people’s in a Ghetto (yes, a fucking ghetto) is the moral bottom however. Israel is indefensible morally.

Ballistic rockets and massacring people at music festivals don't either. There's no moral high ground here so don't even pretend there is one.

by dgxyz 6mo ago

Ballistic rockets and massacring people at music festivals don't either. There's no moral high ground here so don't even pretend there is one.

bongripper 6mo ago

[dead]

close04 6mo ago

That's a crazy way to defend an ongoing genocide. The scale is so different that the only way to miss it is willful bad faith. How long and how far do you go with that justification? Does it work the other way too? Are "their" actions justified forever because of something wrong that was done to them? Can anyone in the world do to you anything and everything forever if they were ever wronged by someone born in the same general geographic area as you? Whenever you find yourself defending any genocide, under any excuse, defending the killing of innocent children because some other guys from the same general area also killed people, you are the bigger problem and no amount of fresh accounts justifying it makes you better.

dgxyz 6mo ago
I didn't defend. I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards and I refuse to take a moral position and support or defend them for it. That in itself is an abhorrent position and I am disgusted at anyone who takes it. And further extrapolation as you edited it, if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing, then they are legally combatants. But it makes a good statistical and PR job which is just as abhorrent. Legally and statistically speakingh, children... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2FezhJgqA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD2FezhJgqA I would not do this to MY children.
- close04 6mo ago
  > I didn't defend. Didn't you? > if a child has a gun pointing at your head That sure sounds like defending the killing of children because for sure they were all holding a gun and trying to kill you. Including the babies. If you show all the YouTube videos in the world, the moment when you find a justification to kill any innocent children is when you become irreversibly the problem.
  - dgxyz 6mo ago
    No I didn't. Your second point literally makes no sense and is based on the straw man that babies are holding guns where I made no point even related to that or collateral kills (which are unacceptable). Secondarily my point is based on internationally legal definitions of combatant and evidenced with a video of combatants being trained. Not like the UN and UNICEF haven't been all over this for decades. Don't use child soldiers and you won't get statistically significant child casualties.
- Saline9515 6mo ago
  > I just pointed out that the "freedom fighters" in everyone's minds are raping murdering bastards So, like Israeli soldiers?[0] > if a child has a gun pointing at your head and has been trained to fire it at you, which is exactly what they have been doing Israelis do exactly the same[1] As long as Israelis rely on violence, war crimes and human rights violations, there can be no deescalation. We see it in the current ceasefire, where Israelis refused to stop their annexation war (and flattening) of Liban. [0]https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-protesters-rally-for-the-right-to-rape-prisoners https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2024/8/13/israeli-p... [1]https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170708-israel-gives-settler-children-firearms-training/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170708-israel-gives-sett...
  - dgxyz 6mo ago
    See my other comments. I'm not defending them either. I am defending facts and stating there is no moral high ground.
    - Saline9515 6mo ago
      Yes, although Israel has the power to deescalate, but hasn't done it. They also have a lot more power to inflict suffering to civilian populations. So complaining about it while continuing to bomb civilians with white phosphore is rather hypocritical and cruel.

Saline9515 6mo ago

https://archive.ph/Gsw1y https://archive.ph/Gsw1y Hamas didn't have prior knowledge of the festival, and partygoers were also murdered by the Israeli army. And in general flattening entire cities don't leave their habitants very keen toward Israel either. It just reinforces the cycle of aggression, which allows Israel to take more land.

dgxyz 6mo ago
So that's ok then?
- Saline9515 6mo ago
  No it's not ok, if the goal is peace and not the achievement of the "Greater Israel" that the current religious far-right in power is pursuing, with the support of the zionist christians in the US.

nielsbot 6mo ago

Genocide, apartheid, and 50 years of terrorism murder of children, destruction of hospitals, churches, schools, universities and imprisonment of a people’s in a Ghetto (yes, a fucking ghetto) is the moral bottom however. Israel is indefensible morally.