5 ms·

I'm a jazz musician, and my kids are both professional classical players. I've asked them why they don't learn to play jazz. My daughter described pretty much w

I'm a jazz musician, and my kids are both professional classical players. I've asked them why they don't learn to play jazz. My daughter described pretty much what Glass is saying here. She calls it "fear of sucking." She knows what good jazz improvisation sounds like, and trying to make herself do it is pretty discouraging. Not that there's anything wrong with loving and playing classical music, which is a factor too. This may be why it's different when you start very young. You're not conscious of your own sucking, you just play, usually in a setting where everybody's congratulating you. For sucking. ;-) I started on classical, and got into jazz by accident, as a bassist. It turns out that you can function in a band as a bassist without having to improvise very much, so I was able to learn at my own pace and eventually did. In fact a lot of good jazz players started out in school jazz bands or large ensembles where you didn't have to be a good improviser right up front.

gritspants 7mo ago
I picked up Violin as an adult, have done recitals, and I suck. Being able to suck and find joy in something anyway even if you're not top nth percentile is a valuable life skill.
- taeric 7mo ago
  So many things in life are better if you can get past that fear of not being good. Because very very few people can skip the stage where they are not good. (I'd be comfortable saying nobody. But there is always somebody, it seems.)
- grogenaut 7mo ago
  I tell my Mentees one of the greatest skills is getting good at not being good at something. Being comfortable being uncomfortable.
  - ziofill 7mo ago
    This is good advice for most human activities. I told my students these exact words (you gotta get comfortable being uncomfortable) countless times when teaching math and physics.
- benrutter 7mo ago
  This is so true! I think as kids we naturally don't mind doing something creative and it not working out well, but as adults, we worry too much about seeming competent. In a career, seeming competent can be valuable, but for learning something new and creative, it often just creates a barrier to getting started.
- nathell 7mo ago
  Can attest to this. I picked up singing 4 years ago (I’m 42 now), starting from nothing, and I’ve been taking regular lessons. I still suck. But I suck slightly less than I did when I was starting, and what motivates me is the sheer joy that it brings. I just hope it lasts.
- wvh 7mo ago
  I think it's pretty frustrating if the songs/pieces you actually want to play are demanding or even at the virtuoso level. If you really want to play a David Gilmour guitar solo or sing some Led Zeppelin, it better not suck because it won't hit the mark at all. For me, the reason to pick up the guitar as a kid was to play stuff I liked, stuff that turned out not to be that easy, and every time I play, I feel that gap of where I feel I should be to respect the music I'm trying to play. I wish I had more your attitude.
  - freetime2 7mo ago
    Rick Beato did a video about being able to identify guitarists by a single note. David Gilmour was by far the easiest to recognize. It got me wondering how much work would it take to even be able to play a single note as well as David Gilmour. And even then I would still only be imitating someone, not creating something original. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gESY87hn7_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gESY87hn7_Q
    - chucksmash 7mo ago
      Wow, true. The David Gilmour note is plain as day. Only other one nearly as easy for me was EVH. The Jimi note sounded like Jimi but like the top comment says, a lot of the others sounded like Jimi too.
      - a96 7mo ago
        Jimi and Eddie are the two singularities of guitar, though. Before them it was unimaginable for anyone to sound like that. After them it was the normal. (Although they're also tones that a lot of players still try to chase for their entire lives and never really reach. There's some magic to them beyond the more obvious steps.)
        wvh 7mo ago
        Cranked tube amps melting down was also part of that magic. A feat not appreciated anymore in this day and age on most stages.
- imrozim 7mo ago
  [dead]
- Tade0 7mo ago
  That's why I enjoy singing so much. Moderate skill good enough as most people can't even bring themselves to do it in public out of embarrassment. My sister is in a whole different league than me in terms of singing but she also performs live, which I don't plan to do unless it's a karakoe evening.
  - harryxps 7mo ago
    I am 57M. I started singing less than 3 years back. Had a teacher from Koltaka doing weekly zooms for a few months, but mostly on my own. Started with karaoke, then graduated to a capella bollywood songs. The idea was to improve my voice, I was always shy/introvert but something triggered me to get on camera. With embarrassment out of the way, now it just 1) keep working on it - singing, producing tiktoks, learning editing on the way, and 2) lot more fun since I can hear my voice and enjoy it ... many of the times. Not a great singer, but getting better every single day. As mentioned in the top comment, or somewhere near that, the first step ... listening to your first botched song, going on camera ... was the hard step. I made a monologue about this, a mix of english and hindi, on my tiktok profile. PS: I have an alt, or a main. Not sure if that is an issue or not. I opened this account a long time back and then decided I did not want my name to be public so I opened an alt. This discussion made me reverse that decision just for one comment. I updated my profile to add my social links, and happy to answer any questions from mods/dang about dupe accounts, but in general do not want to comment on AI, politics, corporations or anything controversial where it can be linked to my identity. And this is not trying to get followers or viewers - I have my hands full anyways.
- grvdrm 7mo ago
  Yup: golf. Go out there and enjoy the air, sun, walk, company.
- butlike 7mo ago
  Embrace the suck. You don't become great coloring in the lines; that only gets you to the 100th percentile. Smearing the paint creates the 101st percentile, which drops everyone else to the 99th.
- skeeter2020 7mo ago
  Finding happiness being an amateur at anything is a super power! IME nothing kills the joy like transitioning to being a professional.
- ksaj 6mo ago
  Yes, the number of amazingly talented people on YouTube has a way of making it feel like it isn't worth pursuing. But that is a combination of the sheer number of people, and "the algorithm" that allows you to find so many of them at that skill level. It creates a pressure that you feel like you must be equally amazing, or just give up. The reality is, you're probably better than at least half of their followers. If that actually matters in the grand scheme anyway.
socalgal2 7mo ago
"Dude, sucking at something is the first step at being sorta good at someting" - Jake the Dog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu8YiTeU9XU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu8YiTeU9XU
TimByte 7mo ago
"Fear of sucking" is such a perfect way to put it
jzemeocala 7mo ago
this reminds me of when i was 16 and a multi-instrumentalist but in love with the bass i had a chance to go to any music school anywhere that i could get into (top choice was the academy of music in rotterdam) i eventually settled on what i thought would be a rock school (based on the instruments taught) in clearwater by some guy id never heard of named jeff berlin.....lol
ksaj 6mo ago
There's a YouTube channel named Sor Hands, and what you've said here is something he has occasionally brought up. He also mentions how he nearly never improvises or plays something that he himself wrote as a result. The comments like this are always in passing, but it does expose his fears to those who notice.

gritspants 7mo ago

I picked up Violin as an adult, have done recitals, and I suck. Being able to suck and find joy in something anyway even if you're not top nth percentile is a valuable life skill.

taeric 7mo ago
So many things in life are better if you can get past that fear of not being good. Because very very few people can skip the stage where they are not good. (I'd be comfortable saying nobody. But there is always somebody, it seems.)
grogenaut 7mo ago
I tell my Mentees one of the greatest skills is getting good at not being good at something. Being comfortable being uncomfortable.
- ziofill 7mo ago
  This is good advice for most human activities. I told my students these exact words (you gotta get comfortable being uncomfortable) countless times when teaching math and physics.
benrutter 7mo ago
This is so true! I think as kids we naturally don't mind doing something creative and it not working out well, but as adults, we worry too much about seeming competent. In a career, seeming competent can be valuable, but for learning something new and creative, it often just creates a barrier to getting started.
nathell 7mo ago
Can attest to this. I picked up singing 4 years ago (I’m 42 now), starting from nothing, and I’ve been taking regular lessons. I still suck. But I suck slightly less than I did when I was starting, and what motivates me is the sheer joy that it brings. I just hope it lasts.
wvh 7mo ago
I think it's pretty frustrating if the songs/pieces you actually want to play are demanding or even at the virtuoso level. If you really want to play a David Gilmour guitar solo or sing some Led Zeppelin, it better not suck because it won't hit the mark at all. For me, the reason to pick up the guitar as a kid was to play stuff I liked, stuff that turned out not to be that easy, and every time I play, I feel that gap of where I feel I should be to respect the music I'm trying to play. I wish I had more your attitude.
- freetime2 7mo ago
  Rick Beato did a video about being able to identify guitarists by a single note. David Gilmour was by far the easiest to recognize. It got me wondering how much work would it take to even be able to play a single note as well as David Gilmour. And even then I would still only be imitating someone, not creating something original. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gESY87hn7_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gESY87hn7_Q
  - chucksmash 7mo ago
    Wow, true. The David Gilmour note is plain as day. Only other one nearly as easy for me was EVH. The Jimi note sounded like Jimi but like the top comment says, a lot of the others sounded like Jimi too.
    - a96 7mo ago
      Jimi and Eddie are the two singularities of guitar, though. Before them it was unimaginable for anyone to sound like that. After them it was the normal. (Although they're also tones that a lot of players still try to chase for their entire lives and never really reach. There's some magic to them beyond the more obvious steps.)
      - wvh 7mo ago
        Cranked tube amps melting down was also part of that magic. A feat not appreciated anymore in this day and age on most stages.
imrozim 7mo ago
[dead]
Tade0 7mo ago
That's why I enjoy singing so much. Moderate skill good enough as most people can't even bring themselves to do it in public out of embarrassment. My sister is in a whole different league than me in terms of singing but she also performs live, which I don't plan to do unless it's a karakoe evening.
- harryxps 7mo ago
  I am 57M. I started singing less than 3 years back. Had a teacher from Koltaka doing weekly zooms for a few months, but mostly on my own. Started with karaoke, then graduated to a capella bollywood songs. The idea was to improve my voice, I was always shy/introvert but something triggered me to get on camera. With embarrassment out of the way, now it just 1) keep working on it - singing, producing tiktoks, learning editing on the way, and 2) lot more fun since I can hear my voice and enjoy it ... many of the times. Not a great singer, but getting better every single day. As mentioned in the top comment, or somewhere near that, the first step ... listening to your first botched song, going on camera ... was the hard step. I made a monologue about this, a mix of english and hindi, on my tiktok profile. PS: I have an alt, or a main. Not sure if that is an issue or not. I opened this account a long time back and then decided I did not want my name to be public so I opened an alt. This discussion made me reverse that decision just for one comment. I updated my profile to add my social links, and happy to answer any questions from mods/dang about dupe accounts, but in general do not want to comment on AI, politics, corporations or anything controversial where it can be linked to my identity. And this is not trying to get followers or viewers - I have my hands full anyways.
grvdrm 7mo ago
Yup: golf. Go out there and enjoy the air, sun, walk, company.
butlike 7mo ago
Embrace the suck. You don't become great coloring in the lines; that only gets you to the 100th percentile. Smearing the paint creates the 101st percentile, which drops everyone else to the 99th.
skeeter2020 7mo ago
Finding happiness being an amateur at anything is a super power! IME nothing kills the joy like transitioning to being a professional.
ksaj 6mo ago
Yes, the number of amazingly talented people on YouTube has a way of making it feel like it isn't worth pursuing. But that is a combination of the sheer number of people, and "the algorithm" that allows you to find so many of them at that skill level. It creates a pressure that you feel like you must be equally amazing, or just give up. The reality is, you're probably better than at least half of their followers. If that actually matters in the grand scheme anyway.

socalgal2 7mo ago

"Dude, sucking at something is the first step at being sorta good at someting" - Jake the Dog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu8YiTeU9XU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu8YiTeU9XU

TimByte 7mo ago

"Fear of sucking" is such a perfect way to put it

jzemeocala 7mo ago

this reminds me of when i was 16 and a multi-instrumentalist but in love with the bass i had a chance to go to any music school anywhere that i could get into (top choice was the academy of music in rotterdam) i eventually settled on what i thought would be a rock school (based on the instruments taught) in clearwater by some guy id never heard of named jeff berlin.....lol

ksaj 6mo ago

There's a YouTube channel named Sor Hands, and what you've said here is something he has occasionally brought up. He also mentions how he nearly never improvises or plays something that he himself wrote as a result. The comments like this are always in passing, but it does expose his fears to those who notice.