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So an average of about $1600 to move to a place with a historically corrupt and incompetent local government, high crime, poor schools, dated infrastructure, an

by bpt3 6mo ago

So an average of about $1600 to move to a place with a historically corrupt and incompetent local government, high crime, poor schools, dated infrastructure, and limited higher education access? They'd need to add at least 2 zeroes to the end of that number to have any impact.

ninkendo 6mo ago
> limited higher education access Michigan has some of the best universities in the country, dunno what you’re talking about. University of Michigan is 45 minutes away and it’s ranked #23 in the world according to https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/latest/world-ranking https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...
- bpt3 6mo ago
  Yes UM is a good school, but it's not in the city. It's one of the many reasons the suburbs or Ann Arbor itself are much more appealing. And that's one world class university in the entire region. Compare that to Boston, SF, LA, DC, Chicago, Pittsburgh and others.
  - mklyachman 6mo ago
    Pittsburgh mentioned
  - ninkendo 6mo ago
    I mean if you’re going to say the university has to be literally within city limits, then I don’t see how Boston counts either (Harvard and MIT are in Cambridge) or SF (Stanford is a longer drive than Ann Arbor is from Detroit), or LA (UCLA is a nightmare of a drive from downtown). Are we really going to split hairs and say Ann Arbor doesn’t count as nearby Detroit but Stanford counts as nearby SF? Come on. The Detroit metropolitan area includes Ann Arbor, it’s in the same commute range. Yes if your main goal is to attend a university, you should live closer than the nearby metropolis, regardless of which university you choose. It doesn’t mean Detroit has “limited higher education access”. And there’s plenty of other quality universities nearby. Michigan has a lot of faults but lack of quality universities isn’t one of them. Unless your standards are “it’s not Stanford or Harvard”, in which case you’re just being unreasonable.
    - bpt3 6mo ago
      I didn't say it has to be within city limits, though I would say access is a selling point. Cambridge is a couple miles from Boston proper and they are tightly integrated, plus BU, BC, and Tufts are in the city. CMU and Pitt are in Pittsburgh. Penn is in Philly (which I didn't list originally), along with other good but less prestigious schools, some excellent schools in the inner suburbs, and Princeton is just as far away as Ann Arbor. NY has NYU, Columbia, plus others nearby. Georgetown is in DC and UMD is a couple miles over the border and accessible via metro. Chicago has UChicago in the city and Northwestern close by. LA has USC, CalTech, and UCLA within a closer distance than UM, and SF has Cal nearby and Stanford further out. If you want to count UM for Detroit, you have to count all of those schools for their respective cities. Detroit is not as strong as any of these cities or metro areas with regard to higher education. You can get as defensive and incredulous as you want, but no reasonable person is going to argue otherwise. The fact that UM is 45 miles away isn't going to make a lot of people choose to live in Detroit proper.
      - ninkendo 6mo ago
        > Detroit is not as strong as any of these cities or metro areas with regard to higher education That wasn’t your first claim, you’ve moved the goalposts. You claimed Detroit has “limited access to higher education”. I never meant to imply Detroit is as good as Boston or SF or the other cities you mentioned, only to point out how ridiculous it is to claim that Detroit doesn’t have some very high quality universities nearby. I didn’t get into Wayne State, MSU, Michigan Tech, Lawrence Tech, UofM Dearborn, or Kettering either, but there are plenty of mid-to-high tier universities close by. “Limited access to higher education” is a flatly ridiculous claim.
        bpt3 6mo ago
        I'm not moving the goalposts. I said Detroit has limited access to higher education. I said that because schools like Wayne State, Detroit Mercy, etc. are not noteworthy and the closest "good" school (UM) is 45 miles away. None of those facts have changed. You're the one trying to poke random holes in my claim in what appears to be an attempt to defend Detroit (there are none, because it's based in the objective fact that Detroit has less to offer than many, if not most, other large cities in that area by any metric), and now are saying I'm moving the goalposts when I address your generally inaccurate statements. To be clear, both the city of Detroit and its metro area offer less access to quality higher education than many other major cities in the US. It is limited in that regard, especially since this program isn't trying to entice people to move to the general metro area. It wants people to move to the city.
  - al_borland 6mo ago
    It’s still in-state, which means in-state tuition if your kid wants to go there. It is also close enough to act as a feeder school for a business being started in Detroit. Plenty of graduates from U of M would move to Detroit or its suburbs for work. There is also an express bus route from Ann Arbor to Detroit for those who want to commute. Also remember that plenty of people went on to do great things without “world class” degree. I know people who went to UofM who MC pub trivia for a living, and I know people who went to smaller public universities in Michigan and are multimillionaires. The name on the paper only takes you so far.
- t-3 6mo ago
  Wayne State is just downtown too, it's not bad at all.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6mo ago
  UM supplied a hell of a lot of Apple’s engineering talent. Tom Knoll (author of Photoshop) went there. I think his brother (used to run ILM) went there, as well. I really enjoyed MacHack.
bryanrasmussen 6mo ago
the future is already in Detroit, and it's been there for a while. It's getting distributed to the rest of the U.S now. It might be that going through the collapse to the other side is the quickest way forward, if so Detroit is already further along than the rest. although it may also be that I am just a cynic.
ergocoder 6mo ago
The website has to be intentional about being a parody. Damn.

by bpt3 6mo ago

ninkendo 6mo ago

> limited higher education access Michigan has some of the best universities in the country, dunno what you’re talking about. University of Michigan is 45 minutes away and it’s ranked #23 in the world according to https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/latest/world-ranking https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...

bpt3 6mo ago
Yes UM is a good school, but it's not in the city. It's one of the many reasons the suburbs or Ann Arbor itself are much more appealing. And that's one world class university in the entire region. Compare that to Boston, SF, LA, DC, Chicago, Pittsburgh and others.
- mklyachman 6mo ago
  Pittsburgh mentioned
- ninkendo 6mo ago
  I mean if you’re going to say the university has to be literally within city limits, then I don’t see how Boston counts either (Harvard and MIT are in Cambridge) or SF (Stanford is a longer drive than Ann Arbor is from Detroit), or LA (UCLA is a nightmare of a drive from downtown). Are we really going to split hairs and say Ann Arbor doesn’t count as nearby Detroit but Stanford counts as nearby SF? Come on. The Detroit metropolitan area includes Ann Arbor, it’s in the same commute range. Yes if your main goal is to attend a university, you should live closer than the nearby metropolis, regardless of which university you choose. It doesn’t mean Detroit has “limited higher education access”. And there’s plenty of other quality universities nearby. Michigan has a lot of faults but lack of quality universities isn’t one of them. Unless your standards are “it’s not Stanford or Harvard”, in which case you’re just being unreasonable.
  - bpt3 6mo ago
    I didn't say it has to be within city limits, though I would say access is a selling point. Cambridge is a couple miles from Boston proper and they are tightly integrated, plus BU, BC, and Tufts are in the city. CMU and Pitt are in Pittsburgh. Penn is in Philly (which I didn't list originally), along with other good but less prestigious schools, some excellent schools in the inner suburbs, and Princeton is just as far away as Ann Arbor. NY has NYU, Columbia, plus others nearby. Georgetown is in DC and UMD is a couple miles over the border and accessible via metro. Chicago has UChicago in the city and Northwestern close by. LA has USC, CalTech, and UCLA within a closer distance than UM, and SF has Cal nearby and Stanford further out. If you want to count UM for Detroit, you have to count all of those schools for their respective cities. Detroit is not as strong as any of these cities or metro areas with regard to higher education. You can get as defensive and incredulous as you want, but no reasonable person is going to argue otherwise. The fact that UM is 45 miles away isn't going to make a lot of people choose to live in Detroit proper.
    - ninkendo 6mo ago
      > Detroit is not as strong as any of these cities or metro areas with regard to higher education That wasn’t your first claim, you’ve moved the goalposts. You claimed Detroit has “limited access to higher education”. I never meant to imply Detroit is as good as Boston or SF or the other cities you mentioned, only to point out how ridiculous it is to claim that Detroit doesn’t have some very high quality universities nearby. I didn’t get into Wayne State, MSU, Michigan Tech, Lawrence Tech, UofM Dearborn, or Kettering either, but there are plenty of mid-to-high tier universities close by. “Limited access to higher education” is a flatly ridiculous claim.
      - bpt3 6mo ago
        I'm not moving the goalposts. I said Detroit has limited access to higher education. I said that because schools like Wayne State, Detroit Mercy, etc. are not noteworthy and the closest "good" school (UM) is 45 miles away. None of those facts have changed. You're the one trying to poke random holes in my claim in what appears to be an attempt to defend Detroit (there are none, because it's based in the objective fact that Detroit has less to offer than many, if not most, other large cities in that area by any metric), and now are saying I'm moving the goalposts when I address your generally inaccurate statements. To be clear, both the city of Detroit and its metro area offer less access to quality higher education than many other major cities in the US. It is limited in that regard, especially since this program isn't trying to entice people to move to the general metro area. It wants people to move to the city.
- al_borland 6mo ago
  It’s still in-state, which means in-state tuition if your kid wants to go there. It is also close enough to act as a feeder school for a business being started in Detroit. Plenty of graduates from U of M would move to Detroit or its suburbs for work. There is also an express bus route from Ann Arbor to Detroit for those who want to commute. Also remember that plenty of people went on to do great things without “world class” degree. I know people who went to UofM who MC pub trivia for a living, and I know people who went to smaller public universities in Michigan and are multimillionaires. The name on the paper only takes you so far.
t-3 6mo ago
Wayne State is just downtown too, it's not bad at all.
ChrisMarshallNY 6mo ago
UM supplied a hell of a lot of Apple’s engineering talent. Tom Knoll (author of Photoshop) went there. I think his brother (used to run ILM) went there, as well. I really enjoyed MacHack.

bryanrasmussen 6mo ago

the future is already in Detroit, and it's been there for a while. It's getting distributed to the rest of the U.S now. It might be that going through the collapse to the other side is the quickest way forward, if so Detroit is already further along than the rest. although it may also be that I am just a cynic.

ergocoder 6mo ago

The website has to be intentional about being a parody. Damn.