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The mostly likely quantum attack on Bitcoin will be a catastrophic transfer of large wallets to burn addresses along with a massive short position. No need to w

The mostly likely quantum attack on Bitcoin will be a catastrophic transfer of large wallets to burn addresses along with a massive short position. No need to worry about washing stolen coins when you can just enjoy your "well timed" legal short position's windfall.

Jerrrrrrrry 7mo ago
Interesting, considering the extra liability / (stability) volatility that bitcoin options provide when making ROI and hashrate calculations, this can be a triple threat. Like publicly destroying ivory /poppy stockpiles while simultaneously holding puts/futures on correlating pharmaceutical financial instruments.
nehan 7mo ago
two things: 1) Short markets in Bitcoin don't have unlimited depth, and the centralized ones are KYC'd so there's some risk there 2) What if it doesn't tank the price? One thing people have suggested is just burning all the vulnerable coins[1]; it reduces supply so maybe the price will... go up? The point is there's uncertainty. [1] https://x.com/lostbutlucky/status/2040878873731080681 https://x.com/lostbutlucky/status/2040878873731080681
- dodobirdlord 7mo ago
  What risk are you envisioning in #1?
  - nehan 7mo ago
    Sorry I wasn't clear there. Because most of the short-depth is controlled by centralized exchanges, there's a risk you won't be able to actualize your short (withdraw, either in crypto or to a bank account), even if it's successful -- they could just block you from withdrawing and/or report you for fraud.
- tshaddox 7mo ago
  I’m pretty sure the hope isn’t that burning some coins tanks the price. The point is that publicly demonstrating that you can crack wallet keys is what tanks the price.
- hananova 7mo ago
  I don't see how 1 is any issue at all. Using a computer to make the intended bitcoin calculations much faster than anyone else possibly can is entirely within the rules of how bitcoin works. It will also tank the price because by doing it, you have demonstrated you have complete control of bitcoin transfers, you can transfer bitcoins from anywhere to anywhere else at any time, and that there is no way to flag it as illegitimate because mathematically you're just providing the correct numbers.
le-mark 7mo ago
This would be the case if many people get the quantum “crack” at the same time. Since it would enable a pre-image attack, one actor could selectively mine blocks for a considerable time until others catch up. This could be going on now.
- dboreham 7mo ago
  Probably not since quantum computers don't exist.
- PowerElectronix 7mo ago
  Yeah, sway better strategy than dowing the world bitcoin is bust while holding it short would be to just mine blocks here and there, to steal from inactive wallets, etc. I'd drain as much wealth from the network without being detected instead of going guns blazing.
CyberDildonics 7mo ago
Washing coins is not too difficult, you could split up values into lots of addresses and use them to buy other coins on other chains.
shagie 7mo ago
Would going for the bitcoin puzzle wallets be a better demonstration of "it's broken" without needing to do anything fancy? https://btcpuzzle.info/ https://btcpuzzle.info/ If all of them went to "solved" at once or in short order I believe that would cause sufficient panic without worry of stealing or burning.
dodobirdlord 7mo ago
Does anyone happen to know if it is settled law in the United States that transferring bitcoins using a cracked key is a criminal act? It’s not immediately obvious to me that it would be covered by the CFAA.
- tshaddox 7mo ago
  I would be surprised if the U.S. legal system requires itself to list every possible mechanism by which someone might steal money.
  - Terr_ 7mo ago
    "Darn it, he's right, there's nothing in the rules here saying a dog can't play basketball or fetch money out of a bank vault..."
  - hananova 7mo ago
    Bitcoins aren't money.
    - wmf 7mo ago
      They're property which is also illegal to steal.
    - greyface- 7mo ago
      18 U.S.C. § 2311 defines "money" in the context of stolen property as: > the legal tender of the United States or of any foreign country, or any counterfeit thereof Bitcoin has, at times, met this standard by being the legal tender of a foreign country.
      - hananova 7mo ago
        Wait, does that mean that counterfeit money is legally money in the US?
        6mo ago

Jerrrrrrrry 7mo ago

Interesting, considering the extra liability / (stability) volatility that bitcoin options provide when making ROI and hashrate calculations, this can be a triple threat. Like publicly destroying ivory /poppy stockpiles while simultaneously holding puts/futures on correlating pharmaceutical financial instruments.

nehan 7mo ago

two things: 1) Short markets in Bitcoin don't have unlimited depth, and the centralized ones are KYC'd so there's some risk there 2) What if it doesn't tank the price? One thing people have suggested is just burning all the vulnerable coins[1]; it reduces supply so maybe the price will... go up? The point is there's uncertainty. [1] https://x.com/lostbutlucky/status/2040878873731080681 https://x.com/lostbutlucky/status/2040878873731080681

dodobirdlord 7mo ago
What risk are you envisioning in #1?
- nehan 7mo ago
  Sorry I wasn't clear there. Because most of the short-depth is controlled by centralized exchanges, there's a risk you won't be able to actualize your short (withdraw, either in crypto or to a bank account), even if it's successful -- they could just block you from withdrawing and/or report you for fraud.
tshaddox 7mo ago
I’m pretty sure the hope isn’t that burning some coins tanks the price. The point is that publicly demonstrating that you can crack wallet keys is what tanks the price.
hananova 7mo ago
I don't see how 1 is any issue at all. Using a computer to make the intended bitcoin calculations much faster than anyone else possibly can is entirely within the rules of how bitcoin works. It will also tank the price because by doing it, you have demonstrated you have complete control of bitcoin transfers, you can transfer bitcoins from anywhere to anywhere else at any time, and that there is no way to flag it as illegitimate because mathematically you're just providing the correct numbers.

le-mark 7mo ago

This would be the case if many people get the quantum “crack” at the same time. Since it would enable a pre-image attack, one actor could selectively mine blocks for a considerable time until others catch up. This could be going on now.

dboreham 7mo ago
Probably not since quantum computers don't exist.
PowerElectronix 7mo ago
Yeah, sway better strategy than dowing the world bitcoin is bust while holding it short would be to just mine blocks here and there, to steal from inactive wallets, etc. I'd drain as much wealth from the network without being detected instead of going guns blazing.

CyberDildonics 7mo ago

Washing coins is not too difficult, you could split up values into lots of addresses and use them to buy other coins on other chains.

shagie 7mo ago

Would going for the bitcoin puzzle wallets be a better demonstration of "it's broken" without needing to do anything fancy? https://btcpuzzle.info/ https://btcpuzzle.info/ If all of them went to "solved" at once or in short order I believe that would cause sufficient panic without worry of stealing or burning.

dodobirdlord 7mo ago

Does anyone happen to know if it is settled law in the United States that transferring bitcoins using a cracked key is a criminal act? It’s not immediately obvious to me that it would be covered by the CFAA.

tshaddox 7mo ago
I would be surprised if the U.S. legal system requires itself to list every possible mechanism by which someone might steal money.
- Terr_ 7mo ago
  "Darn it, he's right, there's nothing in the rules here saying a dog can't play basketball or fetch money out of a bank vault..."
- hananova 7mo ago
  Bitcoins aren't money.
  - wmf 7mo ago
    They're property which is also illegal to steal.
  - greyface- 7mo ago
    18 U.S.C. § 2311 defines "money" in the context of stolen property as: > the legal tender of the United States or of any foreign country, or any counterfeit thereof Bitcoin has, at times, met this standard by being the legal tender of a foreign country.
    - hananova 7mo ago
      Wait, does that mean that counterfeit money is legally money in the US?
      - 6mo ago