4 ms·

I hear people make this comparison all the time, and while it is facially a bit funny I guess, I really don't think it holds up in any serious way. What is so

by jMyles 6mo ago

I hear people make this comparison all the time, and while it is facially a bit funny I guess, I really don't think it holds up in any serious way. What is so similar about our world to that of idiocracy? In almost all the ways that matter, it seems like we are going in the opposite direction. * The primary plot point of idiocracy is that poor (and thus, stupid - the film never explains why this correlation exists in that universe, though) people are the only ones who reproduce. For this reason, there is evolutionary pressure toward decreased intelligence. It's an odious premise on its face IMO, and certainly not what is happening in the USA: our birth rates are declining _because_ people are not economically stable. * President Camacho is the exact inverse of Trump: he is stupid, uninformed, disconnected, and has few resources to address the challenges he faces, but he makes good-faith efforts to do so at every turn. And he seems to be sincere and transparent. Trump's illusion runs precisely counter to this: he has every resource he can possibly need, but chooses to enrich himself and his friends instead of advancing the public interest. Virtually every plot point of Idiocracy can be broken down this way. I see very, very little of the film universe that is consistent with our sociopolitical trajectory. If you want a Mike Judge film that shines light on uncomfortable truths about 21st-century America, the obvious choice is Office Space.

mememememememo 6mo ago
Thanks for that. Good to see a well reasoned argument and another HN nod for Office Space you made me watch the trailer!
A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago
> What is so similar about our world to that of idiocracy? In almost all the ways that matter, it seems like we are going in the opposite direction. The opposite direction?
- jMyles 6mo ago
  Yes, the opposite direction. I pointed out two examples, but I think you can watch the film front to back and find them in every scene. The doctor, lawyer, judge, the storyline about the plants/electrolytes (which has a big opportunity to point to greed and factory farming and utterly whiffs), the Brawndo/unemployment subplot, the intensity of public interest in civic affairs - literally every major plot point runs in the opposite direction of today's realities.
  - A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago
    Seems to me like two different paths to the same end. One stupid, the other more evil or at least rapacious, but the destination is ultimately the same.
armada651 6mo ago
> President Camacho is the exact inverse of Trump: he is stupid, uninformed, disconnected, and has few resources to address the challenges he faces, but he makes good-faith efforts to do so at every turn. Camacho does so because he literally has no other option, there is an imminent famine he has to deal with. If he was living in an era of abundance like Trump, then I wonder how sincere and transparent he'd be.
- jMyles 6mo ago
  > If he was living in an era of abundance like Trump, That's exactly the point: the world of the film is, in every way that matters, the opposite of the reality in which we live. So how are these strained comparisons useful? > then I wonder how sincere and transparent he'd be. Obviously we can't know, because the universe of Idiocracy is on rails toward stupidity and poverty, and never even considers greed and abundance as features of its janky political lens. In the first few minutes of the film, it establishes that poor, stupid people are to blame for every societal ill, and then it depicts a future in which no character ever even grapples with any other antagonist than the poverty and stupidity of his ancestors. Is that today's world?! For who? Are the poor people in Iran and Gaza and Yemen who are dealing with explosives raining down on them (rather than Brawndo) stupid? Do you think their fate is attributable to the proclivity of previous generations to breed in inverse proportion to their material wealth? It's just such an asinine premise it's hard to even understand what would qualify as a sound comparison, but it's certainly not any of those listed on this website.
TiredOfLife 6mo ago
Birth rates are declining only among people who are smart enough to know and manage personal finances.
hodgehog11 6mo ago
This feels like nitpicking. Idiocracy was never supposed to be accurate; the important part is how it seems less ridiculous as time goes on. The primary point of idiocracy was to imagine a world where people were acting in increasingly stupid ways over time. The source of this is irrelevant. In reality, it turned out that the source of the stupidity was an increasingly poor education system, increasing inequality, and carefully designed injection of addictive technologies and medicines into the general populace. Where idiocracy really failed in its predictions was in the development of AI, as that appears to increasingly substitute for lack of common understanding. Also all of this only really holds for the US and maybe the UK.
- jMyles 6mo ago
  > The primary point of idiocracy was to imagine a world where people were acting in increasingly stupid ways over time. ...and in doing so, it depicts a world that is not at all reminiscent of the one in which we live. The white house is not occupied by idiots, but by thieves and murders and sexual predators. The American landscape is not a Brawndo-dustbowl, but a highly profitable, productive, and delicious-but-toxic bounty of subsidized factory farms, stemming not from a misunderstanding of botany, but a misapplication of that understanding. The same is true of the medical industry, the justice system - literally every institution portrayed in the entire film, with the possible exception of waste disposal / the trash avalanche.
tgv 6mo ago
It's not about Trump, but society as a whole. The president was a symptom, as is Trump. > It's an odious premise on its face IMO It's estimated that 1/3 of your intelligence is hereditary. A modern problem is that classes separate more from each other than before: white collar doesn't really mingle with blue collar, ethnic boundaries galore, etc. Before, people were educated and put on the social ladder according to birth. That made that a lot of smart people stayed in their community. Nowadays, they tend to move away. That means there's a development towards stratification of intelligence. Add LLMs to education, and we're on the fast track.
nemo44x 6mo ago
For thousands of years people were unsure if they’d have food the next day and still had a lot of kids. This happens today in the poorest parts of the world. People are not having kids because they don’t want them. Those that can use birth control and failing that access abortion, etc. People stopped having kids precisely the moment they had the option to.

by jMyles 6mo ago

mememememememo 6mo ago

Thanks for that. Good to see a well reasoned argument and another HN nod for Office Space you made me watch the trailer!

A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago

> What is so similar about our world to that of idiocracy? In almost all the ways that matter, it seems like we are going in the opposite direction. The opposite direction?

jMyles 6mo ago
Yes, the opposite direction. I pointed out two examples, but I think you can watch the film front to back and find them in every scene. The doctor, lawyer, judge, the storyline about the plants/electrolytes (which has a big opportunity to point to greed and factory farming and utterly whiffs), the Brawndo/unemployment subplot, the intensity of public interest in civic affairs - literally every major plot point runs in the opposite direction of today's realities.
- A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago
  Seems to me like two different paths to the same end. One stupid, the other more evil or at least rapacious, but the destination is ultimately the same.

armada651 6mo ago

> President Camacho is the exact inverse of Trump: he is stupid, uninformed, disconnected, and has few resources to address the challenges he faces, but he makes good-faith efforts to do so at every turn. Camacho does so because he literally has no other option, there is an imminent famine he has to deal with. If he was living in an era of abundance like Trump, then I wonder how sincere and transparent he'd be.

jMyles 6mo ago
> If he was living in an era of abundance like Trump, That's exactly the point: the world of the film is, in every way that matters, the opposite of the reality in which we live. So how are these strained comparisons useful? > then I wonder how sincere and transparent he'd be. Obviously we can't know, because the universe of Idiocracy is on rails toward stupidity and poverty, and never even considers greed and abundance as features of its janky political lens. In the first few minutes of the film, it establishes that poor, stupid people are to blame for every societal ill, and then it depicts a future in which no character ever even grapples with any other antagonist than the poverty and stupidity of his ancestors. Is that today's world?! For who? Are the poor people in Iran and Gaza and Yemen who are dealing with explosives raining down on them (rather than Brawndo) stupid? Do you think their fate is attributable to the proclivity of previous generations to breed in inverse proportion to their material wealth? It's just such an asinine premise it's hard to even understand what would qualify as a sound comparison, but it's certainly not any of those listed on this website.

TiredOfLife 6mo ago

Birth rates are declining only among people who are smart enough to know and manage personal finances.

hodgehog11 6mo ago

This feels like nitpicking. Idiocracy was never supposed to be accurate; the important part is how it seems less ridiculous as time goes on. The primary point of idiocracy was to imagine a world where people were acting in increasingly stupid ways over time. The source of this is irrelevant. In reality, it turned out that the source of the stupidity was an increasingly poor education system, increasing inequality, and carefully designed injection of addictive technologies and medicines into the general populace. Where idiocracy really failed in its predictions was in the development of AI, as that appears to increasingly substitute for lack of common understanding. Also all of this only really holds for the US and maybe the UK.

jMyles 6mo ago
> The primary point of idiocracy was to imagine a world where people were acting in increasingly stupid ways over time. ...and in doing so, it depicts a world that is not at all reminiscent of the one in which we live. The white house is not occupied by idiots, but by thieves and murders and sexual predators. The American landscape is not a Brawndo-dustbowl, but a highly profitable, productive, and delicious-but-toxic bounty of subsidized factory farms, stemming not from a misunderstanding of botany, but a misapplication of that understanding. The same is true of the medical industry, the justice system - literally every institution portrayed in the entire film, with the possible exception of waste disposal / the trash avalanche.

tgv 6mo ago

It's not about Trump, but society as a whole. The president was a symptom, as is Trump. > It's an odious premise on its face IMO It's estimated that 1/3 of your intelligence is hereditary. A modern problem is that classes separate more from each other than before: white collar doesn't really mingle with blue collar, ethnic boundaries galore, etc. Before, people were educated and put on the social ladder according to birth. That made that a lot of smart people stayed in their community. Nowadays, they tend to move away. That means there's a development towards stratification of intelligence. Add LLMs to education, and we're on the fast track.

nemo44x 6mo ago

For thousands of years people were unsure if they’d have food the next day and still had a lot of kids. This happens today in the poorest parts of the world. People are not having kids because they don’t want them. Those that can use birth control and failing that access abortion, etc. People stopped having kids precisely the moment they had the option to.