5 ms·

After America attacked them, sure, and in any case they aren't even attacking America, so again, why is America involved?

21asdffdsa12 6mo ago
Because Iran attacks them relentlessly by proxxy? Hoothis, Hezbullah, Hamas, etc. It also wars with the kurds and had some fun in afghanistan? Iran is not passive - iran is active, a wannabe us (lets call it micro-satan) - that wants to do what russia did along its borders.
- mikkupikku 6mo ago
  > Because Iran attacks them relentlessly by proxxy? Hoothis, Hezbullah, Hamas, etc Iran doesn't use any of these to attack America. You seem to be confusing Israel for America, a common problem in American politics.
  - 21asdffdsa12 6mo ago
    The us is the peace guarantor for maritime trade in the region. Its the protector of several oil powers. When the hoothi shoot on ships, they hit the us.
  - poisonarena 6mo ago
    The navy anti-drone team on my last 2 ships in the merchant marine would argue differently
  - gryzzly 6mo ago
    Iranian proxies are responsible for well over 1,000 American deaths since 1979, and there were dozens of foiled plots on American soil and hundreds of individual militia attacks in Iraq and Syria, directed by Iran.
    - kdheiwns 6mo ago
      For reference, how many times has the US interfered with Iran's government and how many people in Iran has the US killed since 1979? That's the only way to get a fair view of this discussion. Just wondering if all this happened in a vacuum or, god forbid, Iran maybe has some reason to dislike the US.
      - gryzzly 6mo ago
        this was a reply to people saying "Iran is not attacking the US". It is of course convenient to bend this discussion into a different direction, but this was a reply to blind propaganda that sees only one side as responsible for bad things.
        kdheiwns 6mo ago
        Why would Iran attack the US? Did they just randomly decide to hate America in 1979? Or did America do something that triggered that hate?
        gambutin 6mo ago
        An evil regime requires a constant “evil” enemy to justify its own existence.
      - akdev1l 6mo ago
        “What about…?” Does not make for a good argument.
        srean 6mo ago
        When the comment is a response to another that justifies current attacks on Iran because Irani proxies killed US, it matters a big F'ing deal that those were in retaliation of the US historically scuttling Iranian parliamentary democracy and killing 50K Iranians by way of chemical munitions alone through its proxy.
- vachina 6mo ago
  Still none of your business
  - baq 6mo ago
    Persian gulf is everyone’s business.
- throwaway25231 6mo ago
  How about USA proxies? Or are proxy wars just reserved for other party?
igorramazanov 6mo ago
My personal opinion is that, it's because with the previous political and cultural trends, West had (maybe still has) actually quite high chances of collapsing and falling in the long term due to its own indecisiveness, lots of words mixed a lack of actions against coordinated and targeted efforts of Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Belarus, Cuba, China, Syria and North Korea. I remember national state TV in Russia talking about "we are ready to nuke United States if needed" in 2014 [1]. So, domestically, government made sure people believe that the West is the mortal enemy and we were are already at some kind of cold war since Crimea annexation, it's just West didn't notice, seems like. Then, there were also artifical immigration crisis at EU borders created by Russia and Belarus. And many other various hybrid and asymmetrical attacks. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA9mVLomYo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA9mVLomYo8 So, USA recognized the danger and started dismantling the problem piece by piece, to ensure a long term peace and safety of its people. Could it be better organized and coordinated with allies? Probably, yes, but the meaning stays.
- jurgenburgen 6mo ago
  > So, USA recognized the danger and started dismantling the problem piece by piece, to ensure a long term peace and safety of its people. Could it be better organized and coordinated with allies? Probably, yes, but the meaning stays. By becoming part of the problem? Trump threatening to invade Greenland was a wake-up call for Europe. Actively supporting forces that want to tear down democracy in Europe isn’t particularly helpful either. If we become like China and Russia then why is our civilization in any way better?
- graemep 6mo ago
  If the west collapses it will be because of its internal problems. Inefficiency, bad government, inequality. I think you are right that the West is complacent about its enemies because it cannot really shake the belief in its superiority that came from winning the cold war and dominating the world in the decades after, I just do not think that is the biggest threat.
- pjc50 6mo ago
  > Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Belarus, Cuba, China, Syria and North Korea. Putting these all in the same list conflates very different situations. - Big actual threat with body count: Russia. - Russian proxies: Syria (very lethal, but mostly within Syria, not a "threat to the west", complicated by Daesh and AQ) - Nasty autocracy but stable cold war: NK - Autocracy, but largely minding their own business and with no real capability to threaten: Cuba, Venezuela - Major trading partner: China > USA recognized the danger and started dismantling the problem piece by piece Trump era has systematically downplayed the threat from Russia. And let's not forget how many members of Trump campaign staff were jailed due to Russian influence.
gryzzly 6mo ago
1979-1981 - Tehran, Iran — 66 Americans held hostage 444 days 1983 Apr - Beirut, Lebanon — 17 Americans killed (U.S. Embassy bombing) 1983 Oct - Beirut, Lebanon — 241 U.S. military killed (Marine barracks bombing) 1984 Mar - Beirut, Lebanon — 1 American killed (CIA chief Buckley kidnapped, later killed) 1985 Jun - Beirut, Lebanon — 1 American killed (TWA Flight 847 hijacking) 1989 Jul - Lebanon — 1 American killed (Col. Higgins murdered) 1995 Apr - Gaza Strip — 1 American killed (car bomb) 1995 Aug - Jerusalem, Israel — 1 American killed, 100+ wounded (bus bombing) 1996 Feb - Jerusalem, Israel — 3 Americans killed, 3 wounded (bus bombing) 1996 Mar - Tel Aviv, Israel — 2 Americans killed (shopping center bombing) 1996 May - West Bank — 1 American killed, 1 wounded 1996 Jun - Khobar, Saudi Arabia — 19 Americans killed, ~500 wounded (Khobar Towers) 1997 Sep - Jerusalem, Israel — 1 American killed, 7 wounded (mall bombing) 1998 Aug - Nairobi/Dar es Salaam — 12 Americans killed, thousands wounded (embassy bombings) 2001 Sep - New York/Washington D.C. — Iran facilitated transit of hijackers (2,977 total killed) 2002 Jan - West Bank — 1 American killed 2002 Jul - Jerusalem, Israel — 5 Americans killed (Hebrew University bombing) 2003 Aug - Jerusalem, Israel — 5 Americans killed (bus bombing) 2003 Oct - Gaza Strip — 3 Americans killed (diplomatic convoy bombing) 2003-2011 - Iraq — 603 U.S. troops killed (Iranian-backed militia IED/EFP campaign) 2011 - Washington D.C. — 0 casualties (assassination plot on Saudi ambassador foiled) 2019 Jun - Strait of Hormuz — 0 casualties (U.S. Global Hawk drone shot down) 2019 Sep - Saudi Arabia — 0 American casualties (Abqaiq oil facility drone strike) 2019 Dec - Baghdad, Iraq — 0 casualties (U.S. Embassy stormed) 2020 Jan - Ain al-Assad, Iraq — 100+ U.S. troops with traumatic brain injuries (ballistic missile strike) 2021-2022 - Iraq/Syria — ongoing U.S. base attacks by Iranian-backed militias 2023 Oct-Nov - Iraq/Syria — 60+ attacks in Iraq, 90+ in Syria; scores of U.S. troops wounded 2024 Jan 28 - Tower 22, Jordan — 3 Americans killed, 34+ wounded (drone strike) 2024 - Red Sea/Yemen — ongoing Houthi drone/missile attacks on U.S. naval assets 2024 Nov - United States — 0 casualties (Trump assassination plot foiled)
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
  Would be stronger with a source. Otherwise, it feels on the border of being potential AI slop.
  - 6mo ago
SanjayMehta 6mo ago
Oil.
JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
> they aren't even attacking America America never invaded Greenland. Nevertheless, we're facing blowback because we threatened it. Iran has been chanting "death to America" for decades. That isn't casus belli. Not by a long shot. But pretending Iran hasn't been playing the part of belligerent for years is rewriting history.

21asdffdsa12 6mo ago

Because Iran attacks them relentlessly by proxxy? Hoothis, Hezbullah, Hamas, etc. It also wars with the kurds and had some fun in afghanistan? Iran is not passive - iran is active, a wannabe us (lets call it micro-satan) - that wants to do what russia did along its borders.

mikkupikku 6mo ago
> Because Iran attacks them relentlessly by proxxy? Hoothis, Hezbullah, Hamas, etc Iran doesn't use any of these to attack America. You seem to be confusing Israel for America, a common problem in American politics.
- 21asdffdsa12 6mo ago
  The us is the peace guarantor for maritime trade in the region. Its the protector of several oil powers. When the hoothi shoot on ships, they hit the us.
- poisonarena 6mo ago
  The navy anti-drone team on my last 2 ships in the merchant marine would argue differently
- gryzzly 6mo ago
  Iranian proxies are responsible for well over 1,000 American deaths since 1979, and there were dozens of foiled plots on American soil and hundreds of individual militia attacks in Iraq and Syria, directed by Iran.
  - kdheiwns 6mo ago
    For reference, how many times has the US interfered with Iran's government and how many people in Iran has the US killed since 1979? That's the only way to get a fair view of this discussion. Just wondering if all this happened in a vacuum or, god forbid, Iran maybe has some reason to dislike the US.
    - gryzzly 6mo ago
      this was a reply to people saying "Iran is not attacking the US". It is of course convenient to bend this discussion into a different direction, but this was a reply to blind propaganda that sees only one side as responsible for bad things.
      - kdheiwns 6mo ago
        Why would Iran attack the US? Did they just randomly decide to hate America in 1979? Or did America do something that triggered that hate?
        gambutin 6mo ago
        An evil regime requires a constant “evil” enemy to justify its own existence.
    - akdev1l 6mo ago
      “What about…?” Does not make for a good argument.
      - srean 6mo ago
        When the comment is a response to another that justifies current attacks on Iran because Irani proxies killed US, it matters a big F'ing deal that those were in retaliation of the US historically scuttling Iranian parliamentary democracy and killing 50K Iranians by way of chemical munitions alone through its proxy.
vachina 6mo ago
Still none of your business
- baq 6mo ago
  Persian gulf is everyone’s business.
throwaway25231 6mo ago
How about USA proxies? Or are proxy wars just reserved for other party?

igorramazanov 6mo ago

My personal opinion is that, it's because with the previous political and cultural trends, West had (maybe still has) actually quite high chances of collapsing and falling in the long term due to its own indecisiveness, lots of words mixed a lack of actions against coordinated and targeted efforts of Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Belarus, Cuba, China, Syria and North Korea. I remember national state TV in Russia talking about "we are ready to nuke United States if needed" in 2014 [1]. So, domestically, government made sure people believe that the West is the mortal enemy and we were are already at some kind of cold war since Crimea annexation, it's just West didn't notice, seems like. Then, there were also artifical immigration crisis at EU borders created by Russia and Belarus. And many other various hybrid and asymmetrical attacks. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA9mVLomYo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA9mVLomYo8 So, USA recognized the danger and started dismantling the problem piece by piece, to ensure a long term peace and safety of its people. Could it be better organized and coordinated with allies? Probably, yes, but the meaning stays.

jurgenburgen 6mo ago
> So, USA recognized the danger and started dismantling the problem piece by piece, to ensure a long term peace and safety of its people. Could it be better organized and coordinated with allies? Probably, yes, but the meaning stays. By becoming part of the problem? Trump threatening to invade Greenland was a wake-up call for Europe. Actively supporting forces that want to tear down democracy in Europe isn’t particularly helpful either. If we become like China and Russia then why is our civilization in any way better?
graemep 6mo ago
If the west collapses it will be because of its internal problems. Inefficiency, bad government, inequality. I think you are right that the West is complacent about its enemies because it cannot really shake the belief in its superiority that came from winning the cold war and dominating the world in the decades after, I just do not think that is the biggest threat.
pjc50 6mo ago
> Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Belarus, Cuba, China, Syria and North Korea. Putting these all in the same list conflates very different situations. - Big actual threat with body count: Russia. - Russian proxies: Syria (very lethal, but mostly within Syria, not a "threat to the west", complicated by Daesh and AQ) - Nasty autocracy but stable cold war: NK - Autocracy, but largely minding their own business and with no real capability to threaten: Cuba, Venezuela - Major trading partner: China > USA recognized the danger and started dismantling the problem piece by piece Trump era has systematically downplayed the threat from Russia. And let's not forget how many members of Trump campaign staff were jailed due to Russian influence.

gryzzly 6mo ago

1979-1981 - Tehran, Iran — 66 Americans held hostage 444 days 1983 Apr - Beirut, Lebanon — 17 Americans killed (U.S. Embassy bombing) 1983 Oct - Beirut, Lebanon — 241 U.S. military killed (Marine barracks bombing) 1984 Mar - Beirut, Lebanon — 1 American killed (CIA chief Buckley kidnapped, later killed) 1985 Jun - Beirut, Lebanon — 1 American killed (TWA Flight 847 hijacking) 1989 Jul - Lebanon — 1 American killed (Col. Higgins murdered) 1995 Apr - Gaza Strip — 1 American killed (car bomb) 1995 Aug - Jerusalem, Israel — 1 American killed, 100+ wounded (bus bombing) 1996 Feb - Jerusalem, Israel — 3 Americans killed, 3 wounded (bus bombing) 1996 Mar - Tel Aviv, Israel — 2 Americans killed (shopping center bombing) 1996 May - West Bank — 1 American killed, 1 wounded 1996 Jun - Khobar, Saudi Arabia — 19 Americans killed, ~500 wounded (Khobar Towers) 1997 Sep - Jerusalem, Israel — 1 American killed, 7 wounded (mall bombing) 1998 Aug - Nairobi/Dar es Salaam — 12 Americans killed, thousands wounded (embassy bombings) 2001 Sep - New York/Washington D.C. — Iran facilitated transit of hijackers (2,977 total killed) 2002 Jan - West Bank — 1 American killed 2002 Jul - Jerusalem, Israel — 5 Americans killed (Hebrew University bombing) 2003 Aug - Jerusalem, Israel — 5 Americans killed (bus bombing) 2003 Oct - Gaza Strip — 3 Americans killed (diplomatic convoy bombing) 2003-2011 - Iraq — 603 U.S. troops killed (Iranian-backed militia IED/EFP campaign) 2011 - Washington D.C. — 0 casualties (assassination plot on Saudi ambassador foiled) 2019 Jun - Strait of Hormuz — 0 casualties (U.S. Global Hawk drone shot down) 2019 Sep - Saudi Arabia — 0 American casualties (Abqaiq oil facility drone strike) 2019 Dec - Baghdad, Iraq — 0 casualties (U.S. Embassy stormed) 2020 Jan - Ain al-Assad, Iraq — 100+ U.S. troops with traumatic brain injuries (ballistic missile strike) 2021-2022 - Iraq/Syria — ongoing U.S. base attacks by Iranian-backed militias 2023 Oct-Nov - Iraq/Syria — 60+ attacks in Iraq, 90+ in Syria; scores of U.S. troops wounded 2024 Jan 28 - Tower 22, Jordan — 3 Americans killed, 34+ wounded (drone strike) 2024 - Red Sea/Yemen — ongoing Houthi drone/missile attacks on U.S. naval assets 2024 Nov - United States — 0 casualties (Trump assassination plot foiled)

JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
Would be stronger with a source. Otherwise, it feels on the border of being potential AI slop.
- 6mo ago

SanjayMehta 6mo ago

Oil.

JumpCrisscross 6mo ago

> they aren't even attacking America America never invaded Greenland. Nevertheless, we're facing blowback because we threatened it. Iran has been chanting "death to America" for decades. That isn't casus belli. Not by a long shot. But pretending Iran hasn't been playing the part of belligerent for years is rewriting history.