6 ms·

This is not Steve's Apple

14 points by davewiner 14y ago

js2 14y ago
Summary: Jobs wouldn't have shipped the iPad mini with a non-retina display.
- AndreasFrom 14y ago
  And Apple are starting to do things to compete with, for instance, Google and Amazon. Steve's Apple didn't have to compete because they were years ahead; there was no competition.
prospero 14y ago
Not my idea of what Apple is, and definitely not Steve's. Because Steve and me, see, we were like peas in a pod. He would have run this whole iPad Mini thing past me first.
- davewiner 14y ago
  Hah! I should have put "imho" at the end of every sentence. You got me!! :-)
appleflaxen 14y ago
Taken in combination with Apple's fumble of the recent court-mandated apology and issues with map functionality, it's easy to understand why their share price has retracted. They are still at the top of the mobile food chain, but these recent events are frustrating.
statictype 14y ago
The crux of this article seems to be that Steve Jobs would never have let a non retina iPad ship after retina displays became available because he wouldn't like to ship anything that could be perceived as inferior in any way. Here's the problem with that: Outside of geeks, the retina display matters a lot less than most of us would think. You'd be surprised at how many people can barely tell the difference between the two displays. The high resolution display is simply not as an integral part of the experience as the author seems to think. The display is just a feature. Like disk space and RAM.
- davewiner 14y ago
  Actually people who are not geeks whose vision isn't that great can really see the difference. I happen to be such a person. Even though of course I am quite technically proficient, which I suppose would make me a "geek."
pacomerh 14y ago
Hurts my eyes to read this kind of stuff, so I had to stop. OMG it doesn't have the shiny little pixels, I can't do this, this is horrible. (gun in my head)
swombat 14y ago
Silly. Unlike Dave Winer to post such a one-sided rant. He may not like the mini's screen, but it's evident lots of people do. Generalisation rarely makes for good arguments. As for Apple not compromising before Jobs died? Are you kidding? If Apple should be known for any particular modus operandi, it is precisely that they make compromises - but the right kind of compromise, which they believe will deliver the best product. Microsoft is much more likely to make no compromise, and therefore try to do everything at once.
- davewiner 14y ago
  It's a blog post. Do you know what a blog post is? Hint: It's where someone tells you what they think based on their personal experience.
  - swombat 14y ago
    What I'm criticising is not the personal viewpoint - that's fine - it's the huge generalisations coming off the back of it: "I don't like the iPad mini for this one reason and therefore Apple is fucked an Jobs would never have let that happen!"
    - davewiner 14y ago
      Can I make a suggestion that you not put "in quotes" things the person you're conversing with did not say. That's a fairly hostile thing to do. Speak for yourself, not for the other guy. Everything in everything I write has an implicit IMHO. So ease up there buddy -- and don't get all derailed just because someone had an opinion you don't like or agree with. It's the beauty of life -- we all get to have our own opinions and act on them. YMMV.
      - swombat 14y ago
        > Can I make a suggestion that you not put "in quotes" things the person you're conversing with did not say. That's a fairly hostile thing to do. Speak for yourself, not for the other guy. You do realise that you just used quotes in a way that contradicts what you just said, right? I (and many others, you included, it seems) use quotes to single out a statement or phrase. In this particular case, I used them in an even more boring way: to mark a statement that I felt paraphrased your post. I don't see how that's hostile. You seem to have a thing about quotes, though, since you remarked on them to someone else on this thread! Anyway, I'm not the one who's worked up :-) I'm certainly not "derailed" (am I allowed to use quotes this time? Cheers!)... I was merely stating my opinion in response to your opinion!
nicholassmith 14y ago
This is quite amusing, boiled down "Apple has released a product that I don't like that much, so I think Apple is done. FYI, Steve would have hated this". Except unless Apple had an astonishingly quick run on this the prototype was probably blessed by him at least 18 months ago. Guess what Apple also did when Steve was alive? They sold an iPhone that didn't have a retina display, to large numbers whilst selling one with a retina display. Guess what Apple did when Steve was alive? They sold an iPod Mini that a lot of people thought was pointless as the storage space was so small. Apple will happily sell a product that has trade offs because they believe in the product. I had a choice between buying an ipad 3 and an ipad 2, I quite happily picked the 2 and off I went, no regrets. The Retina displays are utterly fantastic but for a lot of people it's an optional extra. Apple isn't doomed because they've made a product with a feature you don't like, they're going to sell these hand over fist. Postscript: I saw an iPad Mini in the flesh today, the display still looks fantastic unless I shove it all the way up to my eyeball and declare I can see the pixels. They're also selling second hand for an £80 markup. Seems consumers are still keen.
- davewiner 14y ago
  I never said those words that you put in "quotes." I love it when people argue with words they "made up." :-)
jeffehobbs 14y ago
ouch. Spot on. The lack of Retina Display is a deal-breaker and a weird backslide.
elorant 14y ago
That’s what happens when people are idolized beyond common sense. Everyone now believes that a multibillion company with some of the greatest minds in the market can’t keep their shit together because the enlightened leader left for greener pastures. Apple had flops with Jobs around also. Stop assuming that he had the answer to every problem because he didn’t. Many of his predictions were way off (as it should, no one is God to know everything). Steve this and Steve that. Well the guy is dead, get over it. Assuming that the market will devalue Apple to the point that would signal their demise is utter nonsense. Microsoft have had a decade of flops and they’re still alive and kicking. Apple will be around for many years to come and I’m sure they’ll be as innovative as we’ve come to expect them.
arrrg 14y ago
Apples’s Steve Jobs is awesome at compromising. It nearly always picks the right compromises. If all your products fit on one table you have to be. Here are the trade offs involved in the decision of whether or not to bring a retina screen to the iPad mini: Weight vs retina Volume vs retina Battery life vs retina Price vs retina Weight, volume and battery life are all related and weight plus volume can also be traded off with reduced battery life. Apple seems to believe that weight, volume and price are preferable to a retina screen. To me that sounds like a pretty reasonable trade off, especially given that one of the principal complaints about the iPad (and also mentioned in the article) is that it’s so damn heavy.
olgeni 14y ago
> "Steve never would have shipped it." One can only hope that by 2050 this daily Steve-o-rama lament will be replaced by something slightly more interesting. > "Steve's Apple never deigned to do something as crass as "competing." The yearly iTunes connect shutdown for "winter holidays" looks crass enough and it should suffice.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Some people obsess over typography, I don't get it, they are just letters. Others obsess over pixel density (that I understand a bit better having started on a 16 line x 64 character screen stretched across a converted TV set). The point Dave tries to make as far as I can tell, is that there principles that define a company (for example Wallmart defines itself as the cheapest source of things, Round Table Pizza as an 'honest' pizza). And when the company does something out of character from their perceived principles it makes one wonder. His complaint is that the iPad Mini seems like it was there to address the 'portability' issue of the 10" iPad and yet it stepped backwards on the 'principles' of high density displays that Apple has so successfully leveraged since they first shipped one on the iPhone. The argument that they have 'cheapened' themselves to have a product bounded on either side (iPod touch, iPad 10") with high PPI displays. Those kinds of moves can be disconcerting. However that Apple will change as it ages should not be unexpected. Tim Cook is not Steve. Move on people, different doesn't have to be bad. That said, it seems like Apple is moving to high PPI displays across the board so I would expect the mini to get one as soon as they are available in sufficient quantity.
- davewiner 14y ago
  Outstanding quality is what defines Apple. Imho of course.

14 points by davewiner 14y ago

js2 14y ago

Summary: Jobs wouldn't have shipped the iPad mini with a non-retina display.

AndreasFrom 14y ago
And Apple are starting to do things to compete with, for instance, Google and Amazon. Steve's Apple didn't have to compete because they were years ahead; there was no competition.

prospero 14y ago

Not my idea of what Apple is, and definitely not Steve's. Because Steve and me, see, we were like peas in a pod. He would have run this whole iPad Mini thing past me first.

davewiner 14y ago
Hah! I should have put "imho" at the end of every sentence. You got me!! :-)

appleflaxen 14y ago

Taken in combination with Apple's fumble of the recent court-mandated apology and issues with map functionality, it's easy to understand why their share price has retracted. They are still at the top of the mobile food chain, but these recent events are frustrating.

statictype 14y ago

The crux of this article seems to be that Steve Jobs would never have let a non retina iPad ship after retina displays became available because he wouldn't like to ship anything that could be perceived as inferior in any way. Here's the problem with that: Outside of geeks, the retina display matters a lot less than most of us would think. You'd be surprised at how many people can barely tell the difference between the two displays. The high resolution display is simply not as an integral part of the experience as the author seems to think. The display is just a feature. Like disk space and RAM.

davewiner 14y ago
Actually people who are not geeks whose vision isn't that great can really see the difference. I happen to be such a person. Even though of course I am quite technically proficient, which I suppose would make me a "geek."

pacomerh 14y ago

Hurts my eyes to read this kind of stuff, so I had to stop. OMG it doesn't have the shiny little pixels, I can't do this, this is horrible. (gun in my head)

swombat 14y ago

Silly. Unlike Dave Winer to post such a one-sided rant. He may not like the mini's screen, but it's evident lots of people do. Generalisation rarely makes for good arguments. As for Apple not compromising before Jobs died? Are you kidding? If Apple should be known for any particular modus operandi, it is precisely that they make compromises - but the right kind of compromise, which they believe will deliver the best product. Microsoft is much more likely to make no compromise, and therefore try to do everything at once.

davewiner 14y ago
It's a blog post. Do you know what a blog post is? Hint: It's where someone tells you what they think based on their personal experience.
- swombat 14y ago
  What I'm criticising is not the personal viewpoint - that's fine - it's the huge generalisations coming off the back of it: "I don't like the iPad mini for this one reason and therefore Apple is fucked an Jobs would never have let that happen!"
  - davewiner 14y ago
    Can I make a suggestion that you not put "in quotes" things the person you're conversing with did not say. That's a fairly hostile thing to do. Speak for yourself, not for the other guy. Everything in everything I write has an implicit IMHO. So ease up there buddy -- and don't get all derailed just because someone had an opinion you don't like or agree with. It's the beauty of life -- we all get to have our own opinions and act on them. YMMV.
    - swombat 14y ago
      > Can I make a suggestion that you not put "in quotes" things the person you're conversing with did not say. That's a fairly hostile thing to do. Speak for yourself, not for the other guy. You do realise that you just used quotes in a way that contradicts what you just said, right? I (and many others, you included, it seems) use quotes to single out a statement or phrase. In this particular case, I used them in an even more boring way: to mark a statement that I felt paraphrased your post. I don't see how that's hostile. You seem to have a thing about quotes, though, since you remarked on them to someone else on this thread! Anyway, I'm not the one who's worked up :-) I'm certainly not "derailed" (am I allowed to use quotes this time? Cheers!)... I was merely stating my opinion in response to your opinion!

nicholassmith 14y ago

This is quite amusing, boiled down "Apple has released a product that I don't like that much, so I think Apple is done. FYI, Steve would have hated this". Except unless Apple had an astonishingly quick run on this the prototype was probably blessed by him at least 18 months ago. Guess what Apple also did when Steve was alive? They sold an iPhone that didn't have a retina display, to large numbers whilst selling one with a retina display. Guess what Apple did when Steve was alive? They sold an iPod Mini that a lot of people thought was pointless as the storage space was so small. Apple will happily sell a product that has trade offs because they believe in the product. I had a choice between buying an ipad 3 and an ipad 2, I quite happily picked the 2 and off I went, no regrets. The Retina displays are utterly fantastic but for a lot of people it's an optional extra. Apple isn't doomed because they've made a product with a feature you don't like, they're going to sell these hand over fist. Postscript: I saw an iPad Mini in the flesh today, the display still looks fantastic unless I shove it all the way up to my eyeball and declare I can see the pixels. They're also selling second hand for an £80 markup. Seems consumers are still keen.

davewiner 14y ago
I never said those words that you put in "quotes." I love it when people argue with words they "made up." :-)

jeffehobbs 14y ago

ouch. Spot on. The lack of Retina Display is a deal-breaker and a weird backslide.

elorant 14y ago

That’s what happens when people are idolized beyond common sense. Everyone now believes that a multibillion company with some of the greatest minds in the market can’t keep their shit together because the enlightened leader left for greener pastures. Apple had flops with Jobs around also. Stop assuming that he had the answer to every problem because he didn’t. Many of his predictions were way off (as it should, no one is God to know everything). Steve this and Steve that. Well the guy is dead, get over it. Assuming that the market will devalue Apple to the point that would signal their demise is utter nonsense. Microsoft have had a decade of flops and they’re still alive and kicking. Apple will be around for many years to come and I’m sure they’ll be as innovative as we’ve come to expect them.

arrrg 14y ago

Apples’s Steve Jobs is awesome at compromising. It nearly always picks the right compromises. If all your products fit on one table you have to be. Here are the trade offs involved in the decision of whether or not to bring a retina screen to the iPad mini: Weight vs retina Volume vs retina Battery life vs retina Price vs retina Weight, volume and battery life are all related and weight plus volume can also be traded off with reduced battery life. Apple seems to believe that weight, volume and price are preferable to a retina screen. To me that sounds like a pretty reasonable trade off, especially given that one of the principal complaints about the iPad (and also mentioned in the article) is that it’s so damn heavy.

olgeni 14y ago

> "Steve never would have shipped it." One can only hope that by 2050 this daily Steve-o-rama lament will be replaced by something slightly more interesting. > "Steve's Apple never deigned to do something as crass as "competing." The yearly iTunes connect shutdown for "winter holidays" looks crass enough and it should suffice.

ChuckMcM 14y ago

Some people obsess over typography, I don't get it, they are just letters. Others obsess over pixel density (that I understand a bit better having started on a 16 line x 64 character screen stretched across a converted TV set). The point Dave tries to make as far as I can tell, is that there principles that define a company (for example Wallmart defines itself as the cheapest source of things, Round Table Pizza as an 'honest' pizza). And when the company does something out of character from their perceived principles it makes one wonder. His complaint is that the iPad Mini seems like it was there to address the 'portability' issue of the 10" iPad and yet it stepped backwards on the 'principles' of high density displays that Apple has so successfully leveraged since they first shipped one on the iPhone. The argument that they have 'cheapened' themselves to have a product bounded on either side (iPod touch, iPad 10") with high PPI displays. Those kinds of moves can be disconcerting. However that Apple will change as it ages should not be unexpected. Tim Cook is not Steve. Move on people, different doesn't have to be bad. That said, it seems like Apple is moving to high PPI displays across the board so I would expect the mini to get one as soon as they are available in sufficient quantity.

davewiner 14y ago
Outstanding quality is what defines Apple. Imho of course.