4 ms·

.NET tooling can't compete with any unix + ruby tooling. I use .NET everyday I work with NuGet & co and it stinks. It is miles away from being mature and robust

.NET tooling can't compete with any unix + ruby tooling. I use .NET everyday I work with NuGet & co and it stinks. It is miles away from being mature and robust (even with VS2012). I was a RoR dev before and loved it, now I just hate .NET at work because of it's OS (Windows) and tools (VS, NuGet, MSBuild...). We don't use MVC though.

wes-exp 14y ago
I am a former C#/ASP.net programmer and I can confirm this. The thought of going back to the MS stack makes me cringe.
irahul 14y ago
> tools (VS, NuGet, MSBuild...). I don't know about NuGet or MSBuild, but back then when I used VS for misc tasks, it used to run circles around Eclipse or Netbeans.
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  Running circles around Eclipse and Netbeans is not tricky really, they're both horrifying to use on a regular basis.
  - irahul 14y ago
    What else would you compare VS with then?
    - vidarh 14y ago
      A solid Unix/Linux command line. I've yet to see an IDE that can beat the productivity of that, or even get close.
      - irahul 14y ago
        Take a Java or C# project and tell me what you can do with the CLI. Auto completion? Re-factoring(grep and replace doesn't cut it)? Code generation? I said Java and C#, because I don't know which IDE people use for dynamic languages, and if it is possible to offer accurate completion without executing the code(in some cases, it won't work even with code execution but there was an article from the VS python guys(I think) about offering completion without executing code) and reliable re-factoring(this isn't doable at all without confirming with the user).
        vidarh 14y ago
        > Auto completion? Re-factoring(grep and replace doesn't cut it)? Code generation? Auto-completion is an editor feature, and support for auto-completion in text-mode editors is not a problem, though I don't use it as I hate auto-complete with a vengeance. If you need to type enough for auto-complete to matter, your language and/or your identifier names are messed up. Re-factoring and code generation are features I expect of the editor and/or external command line based generators respectively, and there's no reason for a heavy IDE. I can understand people grab onto IDE's if forced to deal with ridiculously verbose languages like Java or C#, possibly. Yet another reason to stay away from these languages.
        irahul 14y ago
        > Auto-completion is an editor feature, and support for auto-completion in text-mode editors is not a problem, Which mighty text-mode editor would that be where auto completion is not a problem? I use Vim and Emacs on a regular basis and it's very much a problem except for cases where it's handled by external tools(eclim, gocode, vimclojure). > though I don't use it as I hate auto-complete with a vengeance. If you need to type enough for auto-complete to matter, your language and/or your identifier names are messed up. Programming languages benefit a lot from auto-complete. The only people against it are people who couldn't get it to work in their choice of environment. I have zero inclination to type "validates_numericality_of" or "http.ListenAndServe" or ... > Re-factoring and code generation are features I expect of the editor and/or external command line based generators respectively, and there's no reason for a heavy IDE. Please refresh your memory. I said VS is a good IDE and you said a solid CLI is far more productive. I am not interested in your rant. I am interested in what does CLI do better than the IDE, particularly VS or Eclipse. > I can understand people grab onto IDE's if forced to deal with ridiculously verbose languages like Java or C#, possibly. Yet another reason to stay away from these languages. Oh man. My environment doesn't have reliable autocomplete. Let's pretend only verbose languages need autocomplete. Yay.
    - nicholassmith 14y ago
      Unfortunately VS does so many things that Netbeans and Eclipse are it's only real rivals, but in terms of being an excellent IDE Qt Creator is fantastic to use, but it's very driven to just be excellent as a C++/Qt IDE.
- cheald 14y ago
  VS is a really solid IDE - one of the best available, I'd say, if it supports what you're working in. Rails really doesn't do "IDE" well, but that's because its entire toolchain is built to be used independently of an IDE. (Edit: There's Rubymine, which is actually pretty decent, but I usually just stick with Sublime and my console because it ends up being faster anyhow)
s_kilk 14y ago
As a dual-wielding RoR/.Net dev, I'm on the fence about this, on the one hand MSbuild and Nuget are a pale immitation of the tools we find in Rub/posix/foss land, but I do think VS is quite a powerful tool when held correctly. Ultimately I enjoy working in both environments, but each for differnt reasons.

wes-exp 14y ago

I am a former C#/ASP.net programmer and I can confirm this. The thought of going back to the MS stack makes me cringe.

irahul 14y ago

> tools (VS, NuGet, MSBuild...). I don't know about NuGet or MSBuild, but back then when I used VS for misc tasks, it used to run circles around Eclipse or Netbeans.

nicholassmith 14y ago
Running circles around Eclipse and Netbeans is not tricky really, they're both horrifying to use on a regular basis.
- irahul 14y ago
  What else would you compare VS with then?
  - vidarh 14y ago
    A solid Unix/Linux command line. I've yet to see an IDE that can beat the productivity of that, or even get close.
    - irahul 14y ago
      Take a Java or C# project and tell me what you can do with the CLI. Auto completion? Re-factoring(grep and replace doesn't cut it)? Code generation? I said Java and C#, because I don't know which IDE people use for dynamic languages, and if it is possible to offer accurate completion without executing the code(in some cases, it won't work even with code execution but there was an article from the VS python guys(I think) about offering completion without executing code) and reliable re-factoring(this isn't doable at all without confirming with the user).
      - vidarh 14y ago
        > Auto completion? Re-factoring(grep and replace doesn't cut it)? Code generation? Auto-completion is an editor feature, and support for auto-completion in text-mode editors is not a problem, though I don't use it as I hate auto-complete with a vengeance. If you need to type enough for auto-complete to matter, your language and/or your identifier names are messed up. Re-factoring and code generation are features I expect of the editor and/or external command line based generators respectively, and there's no reason for a heavy IDE. I can understand people grab onto IDE's if forced to deal with ridiculously verbose languages like Java or C#, possibly. Yet another reason to stay away from these languages.
        irahul 14y ago
        > Auto-completion is an editor feature, and support for auto-completion in text-mode editors is not a problem, Which mighty text-mode editor would that be where auto completion is not a problem? I use Vim and Emacs on a regular basis and it's very much a problem except for cases where it's handled by external tools(eclim, gocode, vimclojure). > though I don't use it as I hate auto-complete with a vengeance. If you need to type enough for auto-complete to matter, your language and/or your identifier names are messed up. Programming languages benefit a lot from auto-complete. The only people against it are people who couldn't get it to work in their choice of environment. I have zero inclination to type "validates_numericality_of" or "http.ListenAndServe" or ... > Re-factoring and code generation are features I expect of the editor and/or external command line based generators respectively, and there's no reason for a heavy IDE. Please refresh your memory. I said VS is a good IDE and you said a solid CLI is far more productive. I am not interested in your rant. I am interested in what does CLI do better than the IDE, particularly VS or Eclipse. > I can understand people grab onto IDE's if forced to deal with ridiculously verbose languages like Java or C#, possibly. Yet another reason to stay away from these languages. Oh man. My environment doesn't have reliable autocomplete. Let's pretend only verbose languages need autocomplete. Yay.
  - nicholassmith 14y ago
    Unfortunately VS does so many things that Netbeans and Eclipse are it's only real rivals, but in terms of being an excellent IDE Qt Creator is fantastic to use, but it's very driven to just be excellent as a C++/Qt IDE.
cheald 14y ago
VS is a really solid IDE - one of the best available, I'd say, if it supports what you're working in. Rails really doesn't do "IDE" well, but that's because its entire toolchain is built to be used independently of an IDE. (Edit: There's Rubymine, which is actually pretty decent, but I usually just stick with Sublime and my console because it ends up being faster anyhow)

s_kilk 14y ago

As a dual-wielding RoR/.Net dev, I'm on the fence about this, on the one hand MSbuild and Nuget are a pale immitation of the tools we find in Rub/posix/foss land, but I do think VS is quite a powerful tool when held correctly. Ultimately I enjoy working in both environments, but each for differnt reasons.