4 ms·

Wow, this is an incredibly detailed piece. Really in depth reporting and the kind of detailed investigation we need more of on important topics like this. > "E

Wow, this is an incredibly detailed piece. Really in depth reporting and the kind of detailed investigation we need more of on important topics like this. > "Employees now call this moment “the Blip,” after an incident in the Marvel films in which characters disappear from existence and then return, unchanged, to a world profoundly altered by their absence." This is a very small detail, but an instinctive grimace crosses my face at the thought of these sort of Marvel references and I'm not entirely sure why.

ytoawwhra92 6mo ago
They're mass media cynically produced to extract maximum profit from lowest common denominator audiences, so the idea that people working in such influential positions find them appealing enough to reference suggests they are members of that lowest common denominator audience. The people shaping the future have no taste.
- Noumenon72 6mo ago
  When things reach a certain level of popularity they constitute "mental real estate". Your audience has heard of Groundhog Day, so there is an opening for a movie with that title to make money -- your film will start out already having name recognition and some understanding of what the movie is about. Thus it is a writer's job not to make references they find appealing to reveal their good taste, but to know what references their audience will find appealing and use them to help communicate concepts. If this bothers you it's because they're insulting you by saying you might be part of the audience that watches Marvel, and you had hoped reading the New Yorker would signal that you aren't.
  - ytoawwhra92 6mo ago
    The writers of this piece didn't make the reference.
    - halter73 6mo ago
      No, but they chose to include it. Presumably there were a lot less apt references they chose not to include.
- eutropia 6mo ago
  There's a time and a place for everything, and rejecting popular media as "lowest common denominator" is the most uninspired form of cultural elitism. Is it cynical to want your <art project> to make a profit? Or for it to make enough profit to subsidize other projects? Is it cynical to make something accessible so more people who watch it are able to enjoy it? I agree that it's embarrassing and feels crass when movies both try to be broadly appealing and simultaneously fail to be entertaining or well executed ... but many of the marvel movies clearly surpass that bar. No one wants to make a bad movie that does poorly with critics and paying customers - but it does happen because making a movie is expensive and complicated and requires a lot of skilled people working together towards the same goal. Regarding taste: do you think a michelin star chef swears off cheap food like hotdogs or fish and chips? Doubtful - because those foods have their place and the chef is able to enjoy them for what they are rather than use them as an excuse to display a superiority complex.
  - ytoawwhra92 6mo ago
    > There's a time and a place for everything Yeah, I'm saying professional communication isn't the place for Marvel references, and that those who choose to include references to those movies in their professional communications are revealing something about their media tastes. If I'm at a Michelin star restaurant I don't want to be served a ballpark hotdog.
    - ianbutler 6mo ago
      That they relate to the common person and aren't overly snobby?
      - ytoawwhra92 6mo ago
        Exactly. They share the cultural sensibilities of the average person on the street, and yet they're making decisions that will shape the world for future generations. I think that's bad. I want those decisions being made by people who have a more extensive cultural education. Snobs, if you want to call them that.
- red369 6mo ago
  I agree that these movies are really being cranked out. I hadn't even realised quite the extent of this until I went to look. But I think some of these movies are good enough that it shouldn't be disturbing that people in influential positions find them appealing: I know a lot of people are critical of the Rotten Tomatoes score, but I find that when a high enough percentage of reviews are positive, it is likely I will enjoy the movie. Some of the Marvel movies have a very high proportion of positive reviews (admittedly, those reviews could be just positive, not very positive). And for most in this list with a very high score, I think it's deserved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_films#Critical_and_public_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Unive... Arguably, one indication of the limitations of the Rotten Tomatoes score is the number of these Marvel movies with high scores :) Btw, I'm not trying to convince you that if you watch the movies you'll like them. Just that they may not all be as bad as you think.
- abustamam 6mo ago
  I'm an MCU fan. And while I do agree quality has gone down, I think it's hard to ignore the fact that the MCU did something really novel. They made a franchise that spanned 20+ movies and tied it up in a way that was almost universally loved by nerds and normies alike. Are there a lot of plot holes and retcons? Yeah. And some bad writing. And the movies that came after have been pretty meh with some exceptions. But for someone to say that referring to one of the highest grossing films and franchises of all time, means their decisions should be questioned, is quite the stretch.
  - kjkjadksj 6mo ago
    The issue with marvel really is that it took another 20+ movies worth of unique ip or stories that could have been told out the window. Yeah, highest grossing of all time, but that has been marching up the whole time too, no? Especially selling to china now. Studios would have made the same money I’m guessing spread out over other IP.
    - abustamam 6mo ago
      > Studios would have made the same money I’m guessing spread out over other IP. I'm not sure if I fully buy that, and these days, much of what comes out of Hollywood are remakes or adaptation no one wants. There's still some gems, but I find personally I'm not interested in a lot of what comes out these days.
- sph 6mo ago
  I disagree with this characterisation. I loathe mass-media blockbusters, but a journalist has to be in touch with public culture in their goal to spread the truth and inform people, not just high-brow elites, but everybody. This is why their work is usually more influential, interesting and engaging than if it had been written by an academic.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
aeternum 6mo ago
It didn't even make sense because they didn't explain what was profoundly altered.

ytoawwhra92 6mo ago

They're mass media cynically produced to extract maximum profit from lowest common denominator audiences, so the idea that people working in such influential positions find them appealing enough to reference suggests they are members of that lowest common denominator audience. The people shaping the future have no taste.

Noumenon72 6mo ago
When things reach a certain level of popularity they constitute "mental real estate". Your audience has heard of Groundhog Day, so there is an opening for a movie with that title to make money -- your film will start out already having name recognition and some understanding of what the movie is about. Thus it is a writer's job not to make references they find appealing to reveal their good taste, but to know what references their audience will find appealing and use them to help communicate concepts. If this bothers you it's because they're insulting you by saying you might be part of the audience that watches Marvel, and you had hoped reading the New Yorker would signal that you aren't.
- ytoawwhra92 6mo ago
  The writers of this piece didn't make the reference.
  - halter73 6mo ago
    No, but they chose to include it. Presumably there were a lot less apt references they chose not to include.
eutropia 6mo ago
There's a time and a place for everything, and rejecting popular media as "lowest common denominator" is the most uninspired form of cultural elitism. Is it cynical to want your <art project> to make a profit? Or for it to make enough profit to subsidize other projects? Is it cynical to make something accessible so more people who watch it are able to enjoy it? I agree that it's embarrassing and feels crass when movies both try to be broadly appealing and simultaneously fail to be entertaining or well executed ... but many of the marvel movies clearly surpass that bar. No one wants to make a bad movie that does poorly with critics and paying customers - but it does happen because making a movie is expensive and complicated and requires a lot of skilled people working together towards the same goal. Regarding taste: do you think a michelin star chef swears off cheap food like hotdogs or fish and chips? Doubtful - because those foods have their place and the chef is able to enjoy them for what they are rather than use them as an excuse to display a superiority complex.
- ytoawwhra92 6mo ago
  > There's a time and a place for everything Yeah, I'm saying professional communication isn't the place for Marvel references, and that those who choose to include references to those movies in their professional communications are revealing something about their media tastes. If I'm at a Michelin star restaurant I don't want to be served a ballpark hotdog.
  - ianbutler 6mo ago
    That they relate to the common person and aren't overly snobby?
    - ytoawwhra92 6mo ago
      Exactly. They share the cultural sensibilities of the average person on the street, and yet they're making decisions that will shape the world for future generations. I think that's bad. I want those decisions being made by people who have a more extensive cultural education. Snobs, if you want to call them that.
red369 6mo ago
I agree that these movies are really being cranked out. I hadn't even realised quite the extent of this until I went to look. But I think some of these movies are good enough that it shouldn't be disturbing that people in influential positions find them appealing: I know a lot of people are critical of the Rotten Tomatoes score, but I find that when a high enough percentage of reviews are positive, it is likely I will enjoy the movie. Some of the Marvel movies have a very high proportion of positive reviews (admittedly, those reviews could be just positive, not very positive). And for most in this list with a very high score, I think it's deserved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_films#Critical_and_public_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Unive... Arguably, one indication of the limitations of the Rotten Tomatoes score is the number of these Marvel movies with high scores :) Btw, I'm not trying to convince you that if you watch the movies you'll like them. Just that they may not all be as bad as you think.
abustamam 6mo ago
I'm an MCU fan. And while I do agree quality has gone down, I think it's hard to ignore the fact that the MCU did something really novel. They made a franchise that spanned 20+ movies and tied it up in a way that was almost universally loved by nerds and normies alike. Are there a lot of plot holes and retcons? Yeah. And some bad writing. And the movies that came after have been pretty meh with some exceptions. But for someone to say that referring to one of the highest grossing films and franchises of all time, means their decisions should be questioned, is quite the stretch.
- kjkjadksj 6mo ago
  The issue with marvel really is that it took another 20+ movies worth of unique ip or stories that could have been told out the window. Yeah, highest grossing of all time, but that has been marching up the whole time too, no? Especially selling to china now. Studios would have made the same money I’m guessing spread out over other IP.
  - abustamam 6mo ago
    > Studios would have made the same money I’m guessing spread out over other IP. I'm not sure if I fully buy that, and these days, much of what comes out of Hollywood are remakes or adaptation no one wants. There's still some gems, but I find personally I'm not interested in a lot of what comes out these days.
sph 6mo ago
I disagree with this characterisation. I loathe mass-media blockbusters, but a journalist has to be in touch with public culture in their goal to spread the truth and inform people, not just high-brow elites, but everybody. This is why their work is usually more influential, interesting and engaging than if it had been written by an academic.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

aeternum 6mo ago

It didn't even make sense because they didn't explain what was profoundly altered.