4 ms·

The usual reasons, although i suspect the real stopper is #1 , regulations and having to work with banks. Don't forget paypal been established as a bank in eu

The usual reasons, although i suspect the real stopper is #1 , regulations and having to work with banks. Don't forget paypal been established as a bank in europe and often has to walk though regulatory mazes.

herge 14y ago
The banks in Ireland are another affair entirely, but in terms of government regulations, things are surprisingly light weight for a country in the euro zone, and are probably better than the US in many domains. As I heard a startup founder say recently: "One of the strengths of Ireland is that we will happily adopt the business practices of any foreigner in replacement of whatever use to stand for business practices the country had in the '80s."
- lucaspiller 14y ago
  Also the commercial taxes here are ridiculously low for the EU, which is why a lot of multinationals have their EU operations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic... And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    On the other side, income tax is one of the largest in Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Rates_of_income_tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Republic_of_Ire...
    - qwerta 14y ago
      Income tax is actually very low. In many countries tax is masked various ways. For example there is 'social insurance' and 'health insurance' calculated from income and de-facto is income tax. Also your employer has to pay 'contributions' which also depends on your income. Real income taxation in country like Germany is typically between 50% to 80% for any decent software developer.
      - raverbashing 14y ago
        You're right, several things can be considered 'income tax' even though not called that way. Didn't know that for Germany, interesting. I guess the point is: compare cost of life and take away salary rather than raw salary figures. Still, lower take away salary may be a handcap in attracting talent.
  - objclxt 14y ago
    It would be quite funny, although also given the tax structure pretty much inevitable, that if/when Stripe launched their product in the EU they set up a Irish subsidiary to take advantage of those tax arrangements.
objclxt 14y ago
I was quite surprised there wasn't more discussion of regulatory issues. I guess Patrick is trying to talk in more general terms about starting up in Ireland, but if the question is "Could Stripe have been started in Ireland?" then I would imagine the primary, if not the only, reason is because of financial regulations. The payment industry is highly regulated, and you would have to assume an Ireland-based Stripe would have to target the entire of the EU (the Irish market being simply too small). And that brings additional regulations - Stripe themselves clearly would like to support EU customers, but have no timeline themselves yet. Conversely, you'd have to be utterly nuts to base your online-gambling start-up in the valley (...although I'm pretty sure a couple have. I still maintain they're nuts). Whilst founders would probably like to be working on a business model that can be applied globally, there are many start-ups where scaling up outside of your home market can be very difficult. Square faces a similar problem with Chip & PIN in the EU. Given that, it makes sense to not just base yourself somewhere where investment is easily found, but to base yourself somewhere with a large number of potential customers. Ireland is probably not that place for Stripe!

herge 14y ago

The banks in Ireland are another affair entirely, but in terms of government regulations, things are surprisingly light weight for a country in the euro zone, and are probably better than the US in many domains. As I heard a startup founder say recently: "One of the strengths of Ireland is that we will happily adopt the business practices of any foreigner in replacement of whatever use to stand for business practices the country had in the '80s."

lucaspiller 14y ago
Also the commercial taxes here are ridiculously low for the EU, which is why a lot of multinationals have their EU operations here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic... And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement
- raverbashing 14y ago
  On the other side, income tax is one of the largest in Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland#Rates_of_income_tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Republic_of_Ire...
  - qwerta 14y ago
    Income tax is actually very low. In many countries tax is masked various ways. For example there is 'social insurance' and 'health insurance' calculated from income and de-facto is income tax. Also your employer has to pay 'contributions' which also depends on your income. Real income taxation in country like Germany is typically between 50% to 80% for any decent software developer.
    - raverbashing 14y ago
      You're right, several things can be considered 'income tax' even though not called that way. Didn't know that for Germany, interesting. I guess the point is: compare cost of life and take away salary rather than raw salary figures. Still, lower take away salary may be a handcap in attracting talent.
- objclxt 14y ago
  It would be quite funny, although also given the tax structure pretty much inevitable, that if/when Stripe launched their product in the EU they set up a Irish subsidiary to take advantage of those tax arrangements.

objclxt 14y ago

I was quite surprised there wasn't more discussion of regulatory issues. I guess Patrick is trying to talk in more general terms about starting up in Ireland, but if the question is "Could Stripe have been started in Ireland?" then I would imagine the primary, if not the only, reason is because of financial regulations. The payment industry is highly regulated, and you would have to assume an Ireland-based Stripe would have to target the entire of the EU (the Irish market being simply too small). And that brings additional regulations - Stripe themselves clearly would like to support EU customers, but have no timeline themselves yet. Conversely, you'd have to be utterly nuts to base your online-gambling start-up in the valley (...although I'm pretty sure a couple have. I still maintain they're nuts). Whilst founders would probably like to be working on a business model that can be applied globally, there are many start-ups where scaling up outside of your home market can be very difficult. Square faces a similar problem with Chip & PIN in the EU. Given that, it makes sense to not just base yourself somewhere where investment is easily found, but to base yourself somewhere with a large number of potential customers. Ireland is probably not that place for Stripe!