3 ms·

No, go out of business and look for a real job.

gpcz 14y ago
If the only choice for dealerships in the classic phrase "innovate or die" is to die, why even say that the dealership industry needs to innovate?
- ihsw 14y ago
  The alternative is to 'bail them out' -- either through strong and enforced-by-guns legislation in their favor, or the monetary kind to 'create jobs.' I'm fairly certain we're all sick of private-industry and government colluding together in the name of state-sponsored profit. No industry deserves a guaranteed profit margin.
  - gpcz 14y ago
    I agree that no industry deserves a guaranteed profit margin. I just think that if one believes an industry needs to die, then talking of innovation is really just a tease.
- sparky 14y ago
  It's not the only choice, just the most likely one. It's certainly possible for a business dedicated to distribution and sales to provide an experience superior to that of a manufacturer doing sales on the side. It's tougher in this case because cars are a big-ticket item, so manufacturers have an easier time justifying their own distribution and sales network than somebody who makes a trinket you need to sell at Walmart. However, the bigger problem is that car dealerships today are in no way optimized for providing an experience superior to anything.
- chongli 14y ago
  >why even say that the dealership industry needs to innovate? You've misplaced the emphasis. It's the people working in the industry that need to innovate (by finding something else to do). The industry itself seems to be obsolete.
jasonwocky 14y ago
Far more profitable to pool lobbying efforts with others in the same boat as you.
reeses 14y ago
The auto industry (in the USA at least) has a huge negative reputation for unethical conduct by the dealerships, especially in sales and service (for which they are claiming protection). It's going to be exceedingly difficult to find sympathetic jurors.
- glabifrons 14y ago
  I couldn't agree more. I've heard _very_ few flattering stories from coworkers and friends over the decades of their experiences with car dealerships and their service. When you factor in something unusual, like a Wankel engine, the experience gets exponentially worse. Just browse any RX-7 or RX-8 forum and you'll see nothing but horror stories whenever anyone asks "where should I have my car serviced?". So much for the dealer's investment in "expensive equipment and training". They don't... they hire the cheapest labor that meets their loose requirements. Now take that difference even further and eliminate the ICE and replace it with 6k+ Li-Ion cells with their own cooling system, an AC induction motor, high powered inverter and the related heavy cabling, and you're going to have massive confusion and problems in a dealer whose primary sales and training is for conventional vehicles. Of course, a possible answer could be _exclusive_ dealerships with _extremely_ strict requirements for training and such, but I'm sure there are probably laws against that as well.
shawn-butler 14y ago
Oh, just like the US auto manufacturers should have just gone out of business instead of being bailed out?
- MrBlue 14y ago
  Yes. Exactly. That is how the free market works.
  - vonhonkington 14y ago
    So you feel it would have been preferable that the auto companies go bankrupt, get liquidated, then have their suppliers go bankrupt and liquidate?
    - jeremyjh 14y ago
      Yes, we know for a fact it would be better because our ideology tells us that is true. We don't need to actually care about or measure specific outcomes, we can know all things just by applying the simple principle that "the market" is always right.
    - angstrom 14y ago
      It was arguably better to keep them on life support as a means of providing a much more controlled transition from ICEs to EVs. Ultimately, the ICE car companies still have the innovator's dilemma in front of them. It's not that they don't see the benefits of new technologies, they just don't have a path that allows them to maintain their current size and infrastructure at the same time. A few of the things Tesla is capitalizing on: 1) Dell's "just in time" manufacturing. 2) Google's use of commodity hardware for scaling. Big iron servers vs linux boxes that can fail individual is like the the li-ion batter pack with several thousand cells vs large nickle-based batteries. 3) Toyota's quality based on open, healthy, workplace relationships that put quality ahead of quantity. 4) Apple's retail store model that seeks to inform without a pressure to buy using a simplified comparison model. 5) The benefit of being the disrupter instead of the disrupted. 6) Engineering focused leadership instead of sales focused leadership; a solid product sells itself. 7) Infrastructure to support interstate EV travel. In time, the entrenched auto companies will likely fail or shrink to shells of their former selves. Much of what needs to change has been a problem for 30 some years and runs orthogonal to what they're used to.

gpcz 14y ago

If the only choice for dealerships in the classic phrase "innovate or die" is to die, why even say that the dealership industry needs to innovate?

ihsw 14y ago
The alternative is to 'bail them out' -- either through strong and enforced-by-guns legislation in their favor, or the monetary kind to 'create jobs.' I'm fairly certain we're all sick of private-industry and government colluding together in the name of state-sponsored profit. No industry deserves a guaranteed profit margin.
- gpcz 14y ago
  I agree that no industry deserves a guaranteed profit margin. I just think that if one believes an industry needs to die, then talking of innovation is really just a tease.
sparky 14y ago
It's not the only choice, just the most likely one. It's certainly possible for a business dedicated to distribution and sales to provide an experience superior to that of a manufacturer doing sales on the side. It's tougher in this case because cars are a big-ticket item, so manufacturers have an easier time justifying their own distribution and sales network than somebody who makes a trinket you need to sell at Walmart. However, the bigger problem is that car dealerships today are in no way optimized for providing an experience superior to anything.
chongli 14y ago
>why even say that the dealership industry needs to innovate? You've misplaced the emphasis. It's the people working in the industry that need to innovate (by finding something else to do). The industry itself seems to be obsolete.

jasonwocky 14y ago

Far more profitable to pool lobbying efforts with others in the same boat as you.

reeses 14y ago

The auto industry (in the USA at least) has a huge negative reputation for unethical conduct by the dealerships, especially in sales and service (for which they are claiming protection). It's going to be exceedingly difficult to find sympathetic jurors.

glabifrons 14y ago
I couldn't agree more. I've heard _very_ few flattering stories from coworkers and friends over the decades of their experiences with car dealerships and their service. When you factor in something unusual, like a Wankel engine, the experience gets exponentially worse. Just browse any RX-7 or RX-8 forum and you'll see nothing but horror stories whenever anyone asks "where should I have my car serviced?". So much for the dealer's investment in "expensive equipment and training". They don't... they hire the cheapest labor that meets their loose requirements. Now take that difference even further and eliminate the ICE and replace it with 6k+ Li-Ion cells with their own cooling system, an AC induction motor, high powered inverter and the related heavy cabling, and you're going to have massive confusion and problems in a dealer whose primary sales and training is for conventional vehicles. Of course, a possible answer could be _exclusive_ dealerships with _extremely_ strict requirements for training and such, but I'm sure there are probably laws against that as well.

shawn-butler 14y ago

Oh, just like the US auto manufacturers should have just gone out of business instead of being bailed out?

MrBlue 14y ago
Yes. Exactly. That is how the free market works.
- vonhonkington 14y ago
  So you feel it would have been preferable that the auto companies go bankrupt, get liquidated, then have their suppliers go bankrupt and liquidate?
  - jeremyjh 14y ago
    Yes, we know for a fact it would be better because our ideology tells us that is true. We don't need to actually care about or measure specific outcomes, we can know all things just by applying the simple principle that "the market" is always right.
  - angstrom 14y ago
    It was arguably better to keep them on life support as a means of providing a much more controlled transition from ICEs to EVs. Ultimately, the ICE car companies still have the innovator's dilemma in front of them. It's not that they don't see the benefits of new technologies, they just don't have a path that allows them to maintain their current size and infrastructure at the same time. A few of the things Tesla is capitalizing on: 1) Dell's "just in time" manufacturing. 2) Google's use of commodity hardware for scaling. Big iron servers vs linux boxes that can fail individual is like the the li-ion batter pack with several thousand cells vs large nickle-based batteries. 3) Toyota's quality based on open, healthy, workplace relationships that put quality ahead of quantity. 4) Apple's retail store model that seeks to inform without a pressure to buy using a simplified comparison model. 5) The benefit of being the disrupter instead of the disrupted. 6) Engineering focused leadership instead of sales focused leadership; a solid product sells itself. 7) Infrastructure to support interstate EV travel. In time, the entrenched auto companies will likely fail or shrink to shells of their former selves. Much of what needs to change has been a problem for 30 some years and runs orthogonal to what they're used to.