4 ms·

I always wonder why people zoom in on Russia, when there's so much America involved. Trump and Musk are constantly targeting London and Khan on social media, b

I always wonder why people zoom in on Russia, when there's so much America involved. Trump and Musk are constantly targeting London and Khan on social media, but sure, it's the Russians driving this.

dhosek 6mo ago
It seems to me like a lot of the American stuff is people directly or indirectly under Russian influence or part of an international network of extreme-right politics of which Putin is the most powerful figure.
- specproc 6mo ago
  Is Putin the most powerful figure? It seems Bibi holds the most sway over Trump this month. Don't get me wrong, I've no love for Putin, but framing the Trump project as Russian misses the huge amount of American money and effort behind him. Is Musk a Russian agent? The Heritage Foundation? Fox? There's a huge, all-American infrastructure behind Trump 2.0. I'm sure plenty of countries did their very best to get that guy in the Whitehouse, but I don't buy that Putin is the main character here.
  - Arodex 6mo ago
    Musk repeats verbatim Russian talking points about Ukraine. When he parrots the same ideas down to the exact same words in the exact same order, what doubt is there?
    - selivanovp 6mo ago
      >Musk repeats verbatim Russian talking points about Ukraine. Have it crossed your mind that they're just closer to truth than what Western propaganda spreads about Ukraine conflict and why it started and keep going?
      - Arodex 6mo ago
        Yes, it has crossed my mind. I examined their claims and they are blatant lies. And you, has it crossed your mind that Putin and his supporters are lying?
      - throw0101c 6mo ago
        > Have it crossed your mind that they're just closer to truth than what Western propaganda spreads about Ukraine conflict and why it started and keep going? It started because Putin wants the 'good old days' of the Soviet Union back, and he does not consider Ukrainians their own people, but just a bunch of folks that have forgotten they are really Russian/Soviet. The 'official' Rusian reason is/was because Ukraine was run by Nazis (never mind that Zelenskyy is Jewish).
  - throw0101c 6mo ago
    > Is Putin the most powerful figure? It seems Bibi holds the most sway over Trump this month. Power and influence can be considered two different things. As for holding sway over Trump: it's often generally anyone that can flatter his ego and/or put money in his pockets. (Or for his swaying himself: whatever will get the most headlines, the most people talking about him.) Trump is not complicated: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad
tencentshill 6mo ago
And now you have moved the argument away from Russia. Pulling a thread off-topic like that is one of their simplest strategies. It begs for engagement.
- specproc 6mo ago
  The two most high profile actors publicly laying into London are American. Surely Ockham's razor applies here?
  - SanjayMehta 6mo ago
    "They're both Russian agents." Just a matter of time before you start hearing this again. They already tried this once using the Steele dossier.
    - Arodex 6mo ago
      You don't need the Steele dossier to see trump and his entourage are manipulated by Russian agents. Fact: Michael Flynn talked with the Russian ambassador. Fact: Flynn lied about the content of his call. Not to journalists, but to FBI agents. Fact: Trump dismissed Comey to stop the investigations around Flynn. He said it openly, on camera. Fact: Trump pardoned Flynn. Fact: Trump is pushing for the prosecution of Comey - a case so weak it has already been rejected before going to trial. Fact: FBI agents have been demoted and punished for nothing else than working on the Russian dossier. Including respected career agents currently working on e.g. Iranian operations in the USA. Their only crime has been to be assigned to the Russian dossier, something they didn't choose. You absolutely don't need the Steele dossier to see something's wrong - except to deflect from the obvious.
pseudohadamard 6mo ago
Another big driver, which TFA mentions, is that outrage drives both clicks and repeat visits. There are lots and lots of people in it purely for the money, including Americans. It's nothing political, it's purely the profit motive. Then the reward functions on FB and YT direct people towards content that appalls or outrages, disturbing videos, conspiracy theories, bigotry. For FB the ideal user is one who's been sucked into a vortex of conspiracy theories and spends all their time on FB. When I say it's apolitical I mean the con artists know exactly who to target, which is the right, because you can feed them anything and they'll keep coming back for more. It's far harder with the left, they'll say "this is all bullshit" and move on quickly, there's no money to be made there. There was a great interview a few years back with a California-based troll who said he targeted the right because that's where you got the responses: "We've tried to do similar things to liberals. It just never worked, it never takes off. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out". "Nothing personal, it's just business".

I always wonder why people zoom in on Russia, when there's so much America involved. Trump and Musk are constantly targeting London and Khan on social media, but sure, it's the Russians driving this.

dhosek 6mo ago

It seems to me like a lot of the American stuff is people directly or indirectly under Russian influence or part of an international network of extreme-right politics of which Putin is the most powerful figure.

specproc 6mo ago
Is Putin the most powerful figure? It seems Bibi holds the most sway over Trump this month. Don't get me wrong, I've no love for Putin, but framing the Trump project as Russian misses the huge amount of American money and effort behind him. Is Musk a Russian agent? The Heritage Foundation? Fox? There's a huge, all-American infrastructure behind Trump 2.0. I'm sure plenty of countries did their very best to get that guy in the Whitehouse, but I don't buy that Putin is the main character here.
- Arodex 6mo ago
  Musk repeats verbatim Russian talking points about Ukraine. When he parrots the same ideas down to the exact same words in the exact same order, what doubt is there?
  - selivanovp 6mo ago
    >Musk repeats verbatim Russian talking points about Ukraine. Have it crossed your mind that they're just closer to truth than what Western propaganda spreads about Ukraine conflict and why it started and keep going?
    - Arodex 6mo ago
      Yes, it has crossed my mind. I examined their claims and they are blatant lies. And you, has it crossed your mind that Putin and his supporters are lying?
    - throw0101c 6mo ago
      > Have it crossed your mind that they're just closer to truth than what Western propaganda spreads about Ukraine conflict and why it started and keep going? It started because Putin wants the 'good old days' of the Soviet Union back, and he does not consider Ukrainians their own people, but just a bunch of folks that have forgotten they are really Russian/Soviet. The 'official' Rusian reason is/was because Ukraine was run by Nazis (never mind that Zelenskyy is Jewish).
- throw0101c 6mo ago
  > Is Putin the most powerful figure? It seems Bibi holds the most sway over Trump this month. Power and influence can be considered two different things. As for holding sway over Trump: it's often generally anyone that can flatter his ego and/or put money in his pockets. (Or for his swaying himself: whatever will get the most headlines, the most people talking about him.) Trump is not complicated: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

tencentshill 6mo ago

And now you have moved the argument away from Russia. Pulling a thread off-topic like that is one of their simplest strategies. It begs for engagement.

specproc 6mo ago
The two most high profile actors publicly laying into London are American. Surely Ockham's razor applies here?
- SanjayMehta 6mo ago
  "They're both Russian agents." Just a matter of time before you start hearing this again. They already tried this once using the Steele dossier.
  - Arodex 6mo ago
    You don't need the Steele dossier to see trump and his entourage are manipulated by Russian agents. Fact: Michael Flynn talked with the Russian ambassador. Fact: Flynn lied about the content of his call. Not to journalists, but to FBI agents. Fact: Trump dismissed Comey to stop the investigations around Flynn. He said it openly, on camera. Fact: Trump pardoned Flynn. Fact: Trump is pushing for the prosecution of Comey - a case so weak it has already been rejected before going to trial. Fact: FBI agents have been demoted and punished for nothing else than working on the Russian dossier. Including respected career agents currently working on e.g. Iranian operations in the USA. Their only crime has been to be assigned to the Russian dossier, something they didn't choose. You absolutely don't need the Steele dossier to see something's wrong - except to deflect from the obvious.

pseudohadamard 6mo ago

Another big driver, which TFA mentions, is that outrage drives both clicks and repeat visits. There are lots and lots of people in it purely for the money, including Americans. It's nothing political, it's purely the profit motive. Then the reward functions on FB and YT direct people towards content that appalls or outrages, disturbing videos, conspiracy theories, bigotry. For FB the ideal user is one who's been sucked into a vortex of conspiracy theories and spends all their time on FB. When I say it's apolitical I mean the con artists know exactly who to target, which is the right, because you can feed them anything and they'll keep coming back for more. It's far harder with the left, they'll say "this is all bullshit" and move on quickly, there's no money to be made there. There was a great interview a few years back with a California-based troll who said he targeted the right because that's where you got the responses: "We've tried to do similar things to liberals. It just never worked, it never takes off. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out". "Nothing personal, it's just business".