3 ms·

> I can't think of any other case pre-smartphone, where I'd be denied the ability to buy a product simply because I didn't want to have to buy another totally u

by 9rx 6mo ago

> I can't think of any other case pre-smartphone, where I'd be denied the ability to buy a product simply because I didn't want to have to buy another totally unrelated product as a condition. Then you must not have been around pre-smartphone? Those of us who were will remember having to buy either banknotes or checks. Later, some would accept a certain type of card that you could buy. If you weren't willing to buy any of those things there was little chance of a deal taking place. Showing up with your goat to offer in exchange would get you laughed out of the room, even though there was an even earlier time where bringing a goat would have been considered quite reasonable. Realistically, the most desperate vendors will still accept your goat as payment if that is what's on the table, but, as I am sure you can imagine, it isn't worth the effort for those who have the luxury of choice. Where technology makes a seller's life simpler, they will demand it. Why wouldn't they?

jjav 6mo ago
None of this is comparable lock-in. You could buy checks from hundreds of different vendors and none had any lock-in on you. You could use a different vendor each time if you wanted. By certain type of card I assume credit cards, which can also be had from thousands of different banks. Also, credit cards are free to get and checks cost a few pennies. Not remotely comparable to being forced to buy a phone to get to a game.
- ryandrake 6mo ago
  Every bank and credit union I've banked with provides free checks, a free debit card, and no fees for ATM cash withdrawals. If my bank gave me a free smartphone, I might be OK with using it for commerce. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if I have a strong opinion on that one.
- crazygringo 6mo ago
  Plenty of people can't get credit cards. Plenty of people can't even get bank accounts. It's absolutely comparable lock-in.
  - jjav 6mo ago
    While acknowledging the frustration of someone who can't (always support cash, the ultimate zero-lock-in solution!), it is disingenious to call them comparable. Bank accounts and credit cards can be had for free, and if you can't get one from one place there are literally thousands of other places to try. (Also I'm not sure how one can't get some bank account? I grew up very poor and still had a bank account in my teens. Credit cards, indeed, can be much more difficult. But these days pre-paid cards exist which is a way in.) In contrast, there are only two choices for phone platforms and neither is cheap and both require a recurring nontrivial monthly expense. So no, not at all comparable.
    - crazygringo 6mo ago
      Back accounts require social security numbers or equivalents often. I've lived abroad and had an impossible time opening a bank account. Credit cards require things like proof of income, a certain credit score, etc. A cheap Android and a cheap MVNO plan costs almost nothing, the equivalent of about 3 hours of minimum wage per month.
- 9rx 6mo ago
  > You could buy checks from hundreds of different vendors Likewise, last time I was at the mall there were dozens of smartphone vendors in that one place alone. > Also, credit cards are free to get and checks cost a few pennies. There are plenty of zero-down smartphones available too. Nothing is free, of course. > Not remotely comparable to being forced to buy a phone to get to a game. Nobody was talking about comparisons, but if you really find it necessary to take us off-topic, Ferrari has long required you to first buy lower-end Ferraris if you want to buy higher-end Ferraris. That predates smartphones as well. Rolex, Hermès, etc. have all done similar things. Needing to buy things in order to buy other things is nothing usual in the world of luxury items.

by 9rx 6mo ago

jjav 6mo ago

None of this is comparable lock-in. You could buy checks from hundreds of different vendors and none had any lock-in on you. You could use a different vendor each time if you wanted. By certain type of card I assume credit cards, which can also be had from thousands of different banks. Also, credit cards are free to get and checks cost a few pennies. Not remotely comparable to being forced to buy a phone to get to a game.

ryandrake 6mo ago
Every bank and credit union I've banked with provides free checks, a free debit card, and no fees for ATM cash withdrawals. If my bank gave me a free smartphone, I might be OK with using it for commerce. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if I have a strong opinion on that one.
crazygringo 6mo ago
Plenty of people can't get credit cards. Plenty of people can't even get bank accounts. It's absolutely comparable lock-in.
- jjav 6mo ago
  While acknowledging the frustration of someone who can't (always support cash, the ultimate zero-lock-in solution!), it is disingenious to call them comparable. Bank accounts and credit cards can be had for free, and if you can't get one from one place there are literally thousands of other places to try. (Also I'm not sure how one can't get some bank account? I grew up very poor and still had a bank account in my teens. Credit cards, indeed, can be much more difficult. But these days pre-paid cards exist which is a way in.) In contrast, there are only two choices for phone platforms and neither is cheap and both require a recurring nontrivial monthly expense. So no, not at all comparable.
  - crazygringo 6mo ago
    Back accounts require social security numbers or equivalents often. I've lived abroad and had an impossible time opening a bank account. Credit cards require things like proof of income, a certain credit score, etc. A cheap Android and a cheap MVNO plan costs almost nothing, the equivalent of about 3 hours of minimum wage per month.
9rx 6mo ago
> You could buy checks from hundreds of different vendors Likewise, last time I was at the mall there were dozens of smartphone vendors in that one place alone. > Also, credit cards are free to get and checks cost a few pennies. There are plenty of zero-down smartphones available too. Nothing is free, of course. > Not remotely comparable to being forced to buy a phone to get to a game. Nobody was talking about comparisons, but if you really find it necessary to take us off-topic, Ferrari has long required you to first buy lower-end Ferraris if you want to buy higher-end Ferraris. That predates smartphones as well. Rolex, Hermès, etc. have all done similar things. Needing to buy things in order to buy other things is nothing usual in the world of luxury items.