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Certainly, criminals also have a right to privacy. However, the limited publication of personal data of criminals by law enforcement is generally a legally legi

Certainly, criminals also have a right to privacy. However, the limited publication of personal data of criminals by law enforcement is generally a legally legitimate measure. Doxxing, on the other hand, is generally a process that violates the fundamental right to privacy.

cucumber3732842 7mo ago
>criminals >law >legally You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally. The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard. But it was perhaps the least worse action available all things considered. Can't just whisk people off the street in a foreign country or drone them over such matters, those options would be worse.
- zaphar 7mo ago
  Is it your position that privacy is a right regardless of any action you take? Many rights are dependent on circumstance and in tension with other rights. In this case I think you can make the case that their right to privacy is lost.
- oytis 7mo ago
  Running a ransomware gang is immoral. Catching someone running a ransomware gang is good. If publishing their name helps catch them, it's also good. Not sure where do you see the gap between legality and morality in this case
  - flipped 7mo ago
    People often forget that Threat Actors (TA) are the ones keeping the infosec alive. They are doing a good job of scaring people into implementing actual security protocols and thereby improving everyone's security posture. The whole infosec would collapse without TAs, let's not forget that. They create jobs.
    - oytis 7mo ago
      That's right. They also create jobs for police though, and now German police is doing theirs
      - flipped 7mo ago
        German govt is also one of the most corrupt and vastly incompetent govt. It's run by bunch of boomers. Most of the prolific ransomware gangs have terrible opsec. De-anon'ing them is child's play. Most of the opsec-aware TAs never even get attributed, let alone get caught for any breaches.
        jojomodding 7mo ago
        > One of the most corrupt It's on like place 10 out of 180, which makes it one of the least corrupt places. It also has some surprisingly non-boomer departments, like the Sovereign Tech Fund. Either way you need to celebrate police doing good things and immoral actors being exposed, it can only have good outcomes. Perhaps it deters them, or deters the next generation of such hackers. Or at least it makes their life less enjoyable, which is fair since they were only able to afford their travels due to their illicitly acquired wealth.
        oytis 7mo ago
        > surprisingly non-boomer departments, like the Sovereign Tech Fund The one that has just invested in Scala? In year 2026? There are many good things about Germany, but competence in tech is not one of them.
    - seanhunter 7mo ago
      This is the “Broken Window” fallacy[1] which was explained by Bastiat. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
      - flipped 7mo ago
- Yokohiii 7mo ago
  > You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally. It's not, in Germany we have separation of powers. > The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard. Morals aren't binary. Morals have context.
KPGv2 7mo ago
> Doxxing, on the other hand, is generally a process that violates the fundamental right to privacy. It historically was used for this exact case: revealing someone hiding behind a pseudonym for purposes of law enforcement. The term dates back to the 90s, if not earlier. This isn't something Gen Z made up. It's a Gen X term. "Hack the gibson" era. Wargames era.
- cucumber3732842 7mo ago
  Doxxing is basically a DDOS reflection attack but for real violence, or threat thereof, instead of 1s and 0s. I might want to do violence upon you for some reason. Maybe I hate you. Maybe you're doing something that I don't like. If I'm lucky I can round up half a dozen buddies to help. But I don't have infinite resources and infinite reach, so my capability is rather laughable unless you live next door. Buuuut, if I craft it just right, I can cause the state with it's practically infinite resources, infinite men with guns who kick in doors, etc, etc to choose to kick in your door and do violence upon you. (And the request usually looks a lot like doing their job for them "hey look over here there's this specific person doing this specific thing that you're supposed to go after", but that's beside the point.) Same as how if I craft a request to a 3rd party server just right a few Kb of on my end can become dozens of Mb on yours. The German police can't reach these guys. Hence why they're doxing them. They're hoping to structure things such that those who can reach them respond to the request (i.e. rounding up these guys will be a line item in some larger geopolitical context).
  - KPGv2 7mo ago
    Okay, so based on the object reality of how doxxing was originally used as a term, it follows from your comment that if your goal is to get someone arrested by law enforcement, that costs as "real violence." Then it follows, given your description of the motivation of German police, that they are trying to induce "real violence" upon the people, and therefore the German police doxxed them.

cucumber3732842 7mo ago

>criminals >law >legally You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally. The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard. But it was perhaps the least worse action available all things considered. Can't just whisk people off the street in a foreign country or drone them over such matters, those options would be worse.

zaphar 7mo ago
Is it your position that privacy is a right regardless of any action you take? Many rights are dependent on circumstance and in tension with other rights. In this case I think you can make the case that their right to privacy is lost.
oytis 7mo ago
Running a ransomware gang is immoral. Catching someone running a ransomware gang is good. If publishing their name helps catch them, it's also good. Not sure where do you see the gap between legality and morality in this case
- flipped 7mo ago
  People often forget that Threat Actors (TA) are the ones keeping the infosec alive. They are doing a good job of scaring people into implementing actual security protocols and thereby improving everyone's security posture. The whole infosec would collapse without TAs, let's not forget that. They create jobs.
  - oytis 7mo ago
    That's right. They also create jobs for police though, and now German police is doing theirs
    - flipped 7mo ago
      German govt is also one of the most corrupt and vastly incompetent govt. It's run by bunch of boomers. Most of the prolific ransomware gangs have terrible opsec. De-anon'ing them is child's play. Most of the opsec-aware TAs never even get attributed, let alone get caught for any breaches.
      - jojomodding 7mo ago
        > One of the most corrupt It's on like place 10 out of 180, which makes it one of the least corrupt places. It also has some surprisingly non-boomer departments, like the Sovereign Tech Fund. Either way you need to celebrate police doing good things and immoral actors being exposed, it can only have good outcomes. Perhaps it deters them, or deters the next generation of such hackers. Or at least it makes their life less enjoyable, which is fair since they were only able to afford their travels due to their illicitly acquired wealth.
        oytis 7mo ago
        > surprisingly non-boomer departments, like the Sovereign Tech Fund The one that has just invested in Scala? In year 2026? There are many good things about Germany, but competence in tech is not one of them.
  - seanhunter 7mo ago
    This is the “Broken Window” fallacy[1] which was explained by Bastiat. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
    - flipped 7mo ago
Yokohiii 7mo ago
> You keep using these words but it causes circular logic as those are all defined by the same entity that is acting unilaterally. It's not, in Germany we have separation of powers. > The action the government took was not a "good" action by any moral standard. Morals aren't binary. Morals have context.

KPGv2 7mo ago

> Doxxing, on the other hand, is generally a process that violates the fundamental right to privacy. It historically was used for this exact case: revealing someone hiding behind a pseudonym for purposes of law enforcement. The term dates back to the 90s, if not earlier. This isn't something Gen Z made up. It's a Gen X term. "Hack the gibson" era. Wargames era.

cucumber3732842 7mo ago
Doxxing is basically a DDOS reflection attack but for real violence, or threat thereof, instead of 1s and 0s. I might want to do violence upon you for some reason. Maybe I hate you. Maybe you're doing something that I don't like. If I'm lucky I can round up half a dozen buddies to help. But I don't have infinite resources and infinite reach, so my capability is rather laughable unless you live next door. Buuuut, if I craft it just right, I can cause the state with it's practically infinite resources, infinite men with guns who kick in doors, etc, etc to choose to kick in your door and do violence upon you. (And the request usually looks a lot like doing their job for them "hey look over here there's this specific person doing this specific thing that you're supposed to go after", but that's beside the point.) Same as how if I craft a request to a 3rd party server just right a few Kb of on my end can become dozens of Mb on yours. The German police can't reach these guys. Hence why they're doxing them. They're hoping to structure things such that those who can reach them respond to the request (i.e. rounding up these guys will be a line item in some larger geopolitical context).
- KPGv2 7mo ago
  Okay, so based on the object reality of how doxxing was originally used as a term, it follows from your comment that if your goal is to get someone arrested by law enforcement, that costs as "real violence." Then it follows, given your description of the motivation of German police, that they are trying to induce "real violence" upon the people, and therefore the German police doxxed them.