6 ms·

This hit the nail on the head. I find much of the HN community insightful and interesting, but in terms of consumer feedback (especially in a B2C environment)

This hit the nail on the head. I find much of the HN community insightful and interesting, but in terms of consumer feedback (especially in a B2C environment) I wouldn't touch feedback here with a 10-foot pole. I don't mean that to be an insult, quite the opposite. Most people here are power users. But that is a galaxy away from how the average user interacts with the internet.

KellyCriterion 6mo ago
> that is a galaxy away from how the average user interacts with the internet Exactly! Esp if you just move away "one tile" from tech/IT or business-power-users, most people are more or less clueless what they are doing/have to do with a computer. Yes, we are in a bubble here - as with every niche/special interest topic: It would be same for me if I would join a "car tuning event" or similar - Im just a car user, and I do not know of all these details and nuts & bolts
- coffe2mug 6mo ago
  > Exactly! Esp if you just move away "one tile" from tech/IT or business-power-users, most people are more or less clueless what they are doing/have to do with a computer. I don't think so. A majority don't want to. But they are forced by geeks/nerds. Geeks/nerds often show off especially in family/friends parties with older/common folk - telling - I can do this/that. Then average CEO or parent is forced to get a smartphone. Next the geek/nerd - has no time to maintain the computer/laptop of the parent. Or loses patience explaining updates/double-click/avoid scammer installing software. Then - boom - geek son/daughter - if smart gets a decent pixel/iphone - otherwise gets a shitty Android device - installs everything there. Moves on. And finally remember it is the young same geek/nerd that will eventually do programming for FAANG/palantir etc. which forces people to install apps, degrade privacy, worsen webapp/websites - all for money.
  - array_key_first 6mo ago
    I think this is missing that older people are not stupid, and they could learn how to use software if they spent the time. Many older folks used even more complicated software in the past, and then they lost the skill or didn't keep it up to date. A lot of older people rely on yougins for tech support not because they have to, but because it's easy learned helplessness. A large part of this is ALSO software's fault, though. Software changes too quick and for no reason. Software these days lies to users, erroding confidence.
    - coffe2mug 6mo ago
      My comment was neither to say stupid or so. Maybe you are focusing on small statistic of older people from white-collar jobs. Most people in > 70s were primarily in jobs that never needed IT. Yes, they have seen computers , faxes, scanners but not sit in front of computers 9-5. Remember HN needs to remember plumbers, bricklayers, nurses, etc Not everyone is from Gates type families
    - Markoff 6mo ago
      > A lot of older people rely on yougins for tech support not because they have to, but because it's easy learned helplessness. Already as young guy in 20's I've found this also works with female government bureaucrats (tax bureau, etc.), who are usually older women at least in their 50s and exploiting their natural maternal instinct. They will be much more laidback about your paperwork and will help you to fill it, if you just pretend to be helpless/stupid little kid they need to help. OTOH I've found if you need to bend the rules, you are much more likely to succeed with (older) man bureaucrat who wanna show off he doesn't need to follow the rules to the T, but he can use some leeway and help you, while women will strictly follow the rules. Obviously the young female bureaucrat in her 20-30s is best to be avoided and rather take new number and wait in queue for older female/male worker if possible. So there are two approaches suitable depending on situation you are dealing with.
clickety_clack 6mo ago
Wait, you mean typical consumers _don’t_ want to build my terminal-based TUI app from source?
- AnishLaddha 6mo ago
  Evergreen: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1atqusj/newtogithub/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1atqusj/ne...
sdfjkhdfjkdhs 6mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 6mo ago
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- deleted 6mo ago
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- sumtechguy 6mo ago
  Honest question do you really use all of those tabs? As a small handful of tabs user I use the bookmark feature to hold things I want to keep for later. ctrl-d and it is in the list. Even then 99% of the time I open it again and go 'why did I keep this'. I get it that it is your workflow. Just sort of curious why you would consider that a 'power user' thing? Would not saving them to the bookmark list be more of 'power user' sort of thing to do?
  - SunshineTheCat 6mo ago
    I don't know why, but equating how many tabs a person has open to how much of a power user they are sounds like something right out of a south park episode.
    - doubled112 6mo ago
      Apparently bookmarks and self-hosting a read it later web app on my home server but only having 5 tabs open at a time makes me a filthy casual.
      - wtallis 6mo ago
        I think you failed to correctly apply DeMorgan's laws to the statement you're reacting to.
      - sdfjkhdfjkdhs 6mo ago
        [dead]
beloch 6mo ago
"Why do I need to download a 100+ MB app, give it permission to track my location, and let it run background processes just to browse through a restaurant menu, buy a ticket, or scroll through a list of posts?" ------------------- Hardware/software companies have, historically, targeted power users because regular users listen to them. The companies producing these apps do so because they can benefit from exploiting the data of regular users, but risk little blowback from power users if they keep their web versions up to date and in good shape. That doesn't mean power users should ignore the presence of these apps however. We should be telling regular users to avoid them for their own safety. We should also be worried that, if we stay quiet and let regular users flock to apps, the motivation to maintain web access will be eroded. When all power users vanish into a single percentage point and a platform achieves total dominance over the alternatives, companies might well choose to focus on only apps.
- beams_of_light 6mo ago
  This cuts to the heart of it for me. I will not install Meta or LinkedIn apps on my phone because they have been found to be very intrusive.
- spixy 6mo ago
  Why do I prefer app: - just click on the icon, no need to type to address bar or search in bookmarks list - faster to load - no need to download JS/CSS, also my credentials are remembered so no need to login - biometric login, no 2FA (finance apps, etc.) - notifications and their customization (browsers only have on/off) Why do I prefer mobile web: - I need multiple instances (tabs) of the website - I need to know URL of the specific page
BloondAndDoom 6mo ago
Very fair point, as an experienced B2B guy myself whenever someone ask me advice about B2C in like “I have no idea”. Been doing this for 25 years but B2C especially today geared towards younger audience is impossible to related for me. I assume majority of the demographics of HN similar

KellyCriterion 6mo ago

> that is a galaxy away from how the average user interacts with the internet Exactly! Esp if you just move away "one tile" from tech/IT or business-power-users, most people are more or less clueless what they are doing/have to do with a computer. Yes, we are in a bubble here - as with every niche/special interest topic: It would be same for me if I would join a "car tuning event" or similar - Im just a car user, and I do not know of all these details and nuts & bolts

coffe2mug 6mo ago
> Exactly! Esp if you just move away "one tile" from tech/IT or business-power-users, most people are more or less clueless what they are doing/have to do with a computer. I don't think so. A majority don't want to. But they are forced by geeks/nerds. Geeks/nerds often show off especially in family/friends parties with older/common folk - telling - I can do this/that. Then average CEO or parent is forced to get a smartphone. Next the geek/nerd - has no time to maintain the computer/laptop of the parent. Or loses patience explaining updates/double-click/avoid scammer installing software. Then - boom - geek son/daughter - if smart gets a decent pixel/iphone - otherwise gets a shitty Android device - installs everything there. Moves on. And finally remember it is the young same geek/nerd that will eventually do programming for FAANG/palantir etc. which forces people to install apps, degrade privacy, worsen webapp/websites - all for money.
- array_key_first 6mo ago
  I think this is missing that older people are not stupid, and they could learn how to use software if they spent the time. Many older folks used even more complicated software in the past, and then they lost the skill or didn't keep it up to date. A lot of older people rely on yougins for tech support not because they have to, but because it's easy learned helplessness. A large part of this is ALSO software's fault, though. Software changes too quick and for no reason. Software these days lies to users, erroding confidence.
  - coffe2mug 6mo ago
    My comment was neither to say stupid or so. Maybe you are focusing on small statistic of older people from white-collar jobs. Most people in > 70s were primarily in jobs that never needed IT. Yes, they have seen computers , faxes, scanners but not sit in front of computers 9-5. Remember HN needs to remember plumbers, bricklayers, nurses, etc Not everyone is from Gates type families
  - Markoff 6mo ago
    > A lot of older people rely on yougins for tech support not because they have to, but because it's easy learned helplessness. Already as young guy in 20's I've found this also works with female government bureaucrats (tax bureau, etc.), who are usually older women at least in their 50s and exploiting their natural maternal instinct. They will be much more laidback about your paperwork and will help you to fill it, if you just pretend to be helpless/stupid little kid they need to help. OTOH I've found if you need to bend the rules, you are much more likely to succeed with (older) man bureaucrat who wanna show off he doesn't need to follow the rules to the T, but he can use some leeway and help you, while women will strictly follow the rules. Obviously the young female bureaucrat in her 20-30s is best to be avoided and rather take new number and wait in queue for older female/male worker if possible. So there are two approaches suitable depending on situation you are dealing with.

clickety_clack 6mo ago

Wait, you mean typical consumers _don’t_ want to build my terminal-based TUI app from source?

AnishLaddha 6mo ago
Evergreen: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1atqusj/newtogithub/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1atqusj/ne...

sdfjkhdfjkdhs 6mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
sumtechguy 6mo ago
Honest question do you really use all of those tabs? As a small handful of tabs user I use the bookmark feature to hold things I want to keep for later. ctrl-d and it is in the list. Even then 99% of the time I open it again and go 'why did I keep this'. I get it that it is your workflow. Just sort of curious why you would consider that a 'power user' thing? Would not saving them to the bookmark list be more of 'power user' sort of thing to do?
- SunshineTheCat 6mo ago
  I don't know why, but equating how many tabs a person has open to how much of a power user they are sounds like something right out of a south park episode.
  - doubled112 6mo ago
    Apparently bookmarks and self-hosting a read it later web app on my home server but only having 5 tabs open at a time makes me a filthy casual.
    - wtallis 6mo ago
      I think you failed to correctly apply DeMorgan's laws to the statement you're reacting to.
    - sdfjkhdfjkdhs 6mo ago
      [dead]

beloch 6mo ago

"Why do I need to download a 100+ MB app, give it permission to track my location, and let it run background processes just to browse through a restaurant menu, buy a ticket, or scroll through a list of posts?" ------------------- Hardware/software companies have, historically, targeted power users because regular users listen to them. The companies producing these apps do so because they can benefit from exploiting the data of regular users, but risk little blowback from power users if they keep their web versions up to date and in good shape. That doesn't mean power users should ignore the presence of these apps however. We should be telling regular users to avoid them for their own safety. We should also be worried that, if we stay quiet and let regular users flock to apps, the motivation to maintain web access will be eroded. When all power users vanish into a single percentage point and a platform achieves total dominance over the alternatives, companies might well choose to focus on only apps.

beams_of_light 6mo ago
This cuts to the heart of it for me. I will not install Meta or LinkedIn apps on my phone because they have been found to be very intrusive.
spixy 6mo ago
Why do I prefer app: - just click on the icon, no need to type to address bar or search in bookmarks list - faster to load - no need to download JS/CSS, also my credentials are remembered so no need to login - biometric login, no 2FA (finance apps, etc.) - notifications and their customization (browsers only have on/off) Why do I prefer mobile web: - I need multiple instances (tabs) of the website - I need to know URL of the specific page

BloondAndDoom 6mo ago

Very fair point, as an experienced B2B guy myself whenever someone ask me advice about B2C in like “I have no idea”. Been doing this for 25 years but B2C especially today geared towards younger audience is impossible to related for me. I assume majority of the demographics of HN similar