4 ms·
I mean Cocoa and SwiftUI are more consistent in the sense that a lot of stuff automatically adapts when Apple changes styling. And they certainly have less chur
by steve1977 7mo ago
I mean Cocoa and SwiftUI are more consistent in the sense that a lot of stuff automatically adapts when Apple changes styling. And they certainly have less churn and more focus compared to Microsoft.
Basically it's been Objective-C and Cocoa since around 2000, later on Swift and then also SwiftUI. That's not too bad for 25 years.
And in contrast to MS, you didn't get abandoned when you were sticking to the official frameworks. Quite contrary, you basically got the switches from PowerPC to x86 to ARM almost for free for example.
Apple is not perfect by any means, but in this regard I truly think they are ahead of Microsoft.
- pjmlp 7mo agoSure, if we ignore the stuff and bugs they still have, the missing features in SwiftUI and performance regressions, or the iPhonisms brought to macOS with Catalyst. The reboot of frameworks based in OpenGL with the Metal rewrite. And many other things I am not bothering with since all those OS System N releases, A/UX UI framework, Teligent based documents,....
- noodletheworld 7mo agoCome on, you think SwiftUI has more bugs than the ten different Microsoft frameworks? There are just more people encountering them because the developers are concentrated on using one thing. It’s not perfect, but a compared to Microsoft, calling Apple out for having bugs is a little rich isn't it? I pose to you, if the Microsoft offerings are so compelling, why are the serious players using 3rd party wrappers like QT and Avalonia? It’s because the first party offerings are not compelling. They’re a disaster dumpster fire. And buggy.
- pjmlp 7mo agoIf Apple products are so compelling why are so many devs using Electron, React Native and Flutter on macOS, to the point it deserved being mentioned at WWDC 2025 State of the Nation Keynote? My point was don't throw stones when having a big glass roof as well. Apple isn't the perfection you make out to be, also has a rich history of failures, and only did not went bankrupt due to sheer luck of doing the right decision when there were not many remaining to take.
- jhbadger 7mo agoThat's a different issue. Things like Electron are popular not because native development is buggy, but because most developers these days are web developers. They know Javascript. They've never written anything in C/C++ or even the slightly friendlier Swift, Rust, or Go. Electron lets people who only know the Web make desktop apps.
- pjmlp 7mo agoNope, it is the same issue now being worded around to sell the Apple is shiny story above.
- noodletheworld 7mo ago> Apple is shiny story Is a fantasy you invented to argue against. Microsoft’s 1st party offerings are an embarrassment. Apples first party offering isnt amazing either; it’s just “ok”; but its not a total embarrassment.
- paavope 7mo agoNobody in this thread is claiming Apple is perfect, just ahead of MS in UI consistency and _less_ buggy
- pjmlp 7mo ago"Ahead" with yes but attitude.
- steve1977 7mo agoNone of the UI frameworks is perfect. Neither the ones from Microsoft, nor the ones from Apple, nor Qt, nor GTK (lol...), nor the web-based ones. I'm just saying that in my personal opinion and experience, the ones from Apple have the best yay-to-wtf ratio. Your mileage may vary.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 7mo ago