4 ms·

Are you sure that isn't wifi interference?

by CyberDildonics 6mo ago

eqvinox 6mo ago
Most places in Asia, this is due to massive oversubscription. No relation at all to wireless spectrum.
- CyberDildonics 6mo ago
  That's easy to claim, but there are a lot of places where everyone is surrounded by everyone else's wifi routers. If you have 9 routers that you share walls with and even more that can reach you, wifi starts to break down, but people will blame their service provider.
  - eqvinox 6mo ago
    I've been there a bunch, my colleague has lived there. We work in the telco area. My own experiences I would question, his I don't. It's oversubscription. Can I provide citations or proof? No. That's extremely hard to do with oversubscription in general, no telco will admit their exact ratio without being forced to. Sometimes you can reverse engineer it from peering relationships, but that doesn't allow identifying bandwidth constraints on medium haul.
    - CyberDildonics 6mo ago
      It's oversubscription. You said that already, but repeating something isn't evidence. Oversubscription would be something that happens with cable internet on a node by node basis, so to say the problem is one thing and only that doesn't make any sense. Not only that but people will sign up for hundred megabit to gigabit internet but they only really need to watch some streams that use 3mb each. You can actually figure out oversubscription if you ping nodes, especially over time. There are more factors like international bandwidth, lack of caching servers in smaller countries so bandwidth has to be international, cable signal levels etc. None of these come close to wifi contamination. If you have two neighbors trying to watch tv over wifi and you're trying to watch tv over wifi, you're sunk. Now take that to being surrounded by a dozen people, all watching tv over wifi and all watching videos on phones and tablets. Unless someone is in a house, more isolated from their neighbors it is going to be a much bigger problem for almost everyone. You can say 'oversubscription' because you're buddy said that, but even that can have some truth while still being a marginal issue next to the real problems. Even in places with great internet, people get a single wifi router, put all their computers and TVs on it, then blame their ISP.
      - eqvinox 6mo ago
        You seem to be making arguments with significantly less of a connection to the actual scenario being discussed. And you're explaining oversubscription to 2 network engineers, one of them having presented at APRICOT and APNIC. I guess I should've focused less on oversubscription and made clear that we know it's not spectrum utilization. For that, we have the equipment to measure, and we did, and it's not the problem.
        CyberDildonics 6mo ago
        For that, we have the equipment to measure, and we did, and it's not the problem. It has been a problem for basically everyone living in apartments that had network problems that I've seen. If you measure at the wrong time it's going to look fine. You have to be there when people are watching video over wifi. Again, just because people can't get their full bandwidth, it doesn't mean oversubscription is the actual bottleneck.
        eqvinox 6mo ago
        Dude, how oblivious are you. You're {man,nerd}splaining. Hard. Did you miss the "network engineer" part? Do you think our first step in debugging performance issues seen on wifi would be anything other than grabbing a cable?
        CyberDildonics 6mo ago
        Did you miss the "network engineer" part? I get that you don't want to actually confront what I'm saying by pulling out a label and doing the appeal to authority routine, but that isn't real evidence or information. You're still ignoring that two things can be true, but it doesn't mean they are both equal contributors when you take a birds eye overview of entire countries. You also aren't explaining why wifi wouldn't be the primary bottleneck when you're surrounded by dozens of routers with shared walls and everyone is watching multiple video streams. If you go into an apartment 10 floors up anywhere with internet you see dozens of wifi networks.

Are you sure that isn't wifi interference?

eqvinox 6mo ago

Most places in Asia, this is due to massive oversubscription. No relation at all to wireless spectrum.

CyberDildonics 6mo ago
That's easy to claim, but there are a lot of places where everyone is surrounded by everyone else's wifi routers. If you have 9 routers that you share walls with and even more that can reach you, wifi starts to break down, but people will blame their service provider.
- eqvinox 6mo ago
  I've been there a bunch, my colleague has lived there. We work in the telco area. My own experiences I would question, his I don't. It's oversubscription. Can I provide citations or proof? No. That's extremely hard to do with oversubscription in general, no telco will admit their exact ratio without being forced to. Sometimes you can reverse engineer it from peering relationships, but that doesn't allow identifying bandwidth constraints on medium haul.
  - CyberDildonics 6mo ago
    It's oversubscription. You said that already, but repeating something isn't evidence. Oversubscription would be something that happens with cable internet on a node by node basis, so to say the problem is one thing and only that doesn't make any sense. Not only that but people will sign up for hundred megabit to gigabit internet but they only really need to watch some streams that use 3mb each. You can actually figure out oversubscription if you ping nodes, especially over time. There are more factors like international bandwidth, lack of caching servers in smaller countries so bandwidth has to be international, cable signal levels etc. None of these come close to wifi contamination. If you have two neighbors trying to watch tv over wifi and you're trying to watch tv over wifi, you're sunk. Now take that to being surrounded by a dozen people, all watching tv over wifi and all watching videos on phones and tablets. Unless someone is in a house, more isolated from their neighbors it is going to be a much bigger problem for almost everyone. You can say 'oversubscription' because you're buddy said that, but even that can have some truth while still being a marginal issue next to the real problems. Even in places with great internet, people get a single wifi router, put all their computers and TVs on it, then blame their ISP.
    - eqvinox 6mo ago
      You seem to be making arguments with significantly less of a connection to the actual scenario being discussed. And you're explaining oversubscription to 2 network engineers, one of them having presented at APRICOT and APNIC. I guess I should've focused less on oversubscription and made clear that we know it's not spectrum utilization. For that, we have the equipment to measure, and we did, and it's not the problem.
      - CyberDildonics 6mo ago
        For that, we have the equipment to measure, and we did, and it's not the problem. It has been a problem for basically everyone living in apartments that had network problems that I've seen. If you measure at the wrong time it's going to look fine. You have to be there when people are watching video over wifi. Again, just because people can't get their full bandwidth, it doesn't mean oversubscription is the actual bottleneck.
        eqvinox 6mo ago
        Dude, how oblivious are you. You're {man,nerd}splaining. Hard. Did you miss the "network engineer" part? Do you think our first step in debugging performance issues seen on wifi would be anything other than grabbing a cable?
        CyberDildonics 6mo ago
        Did you miss the "network engineer" part? I get that you don't want to actually confront what I'm saying by pulling out a label and doing the appeal to authority routine, but that isn't real evidence or information. You're still ignoring that two things can be true, but it doesn't mean they are both equal contributors when you take a birds eye overview of entire countries. You also aren't explaining why wifi wouldn't be the primary bottleneck when you're surrounded by dozens of routers with shared walls and everyone is watching multiple video streams. If you go into an apartment 10 floors up anywhere with internet you see dozens of wifi networks.