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I guarantee you that a lot more people would be willing to put up with it for $10 million a year.

by thfuran 7mo ago

upsuper 7mo ago
You would probably need to face voters questioning whether that's the best way to use their money.
- ghaff 7mo ago
  In many places, garbage collection is done by competing private firms.
alex43578 7mo ago
Ok, but society can't bear the cost of $10M garbage men, so either people will do it themselves or go without. The same argument applies to any job: in most scenarios, it pays what it's worth to society at the market clearing price. The government can interfere via licensing, minimum wages, quotas, etc; but broadly the job pays what it's worth.
- shiroiuma 7mo ago
  Society cannot function without garbage people. It must be done or society will collapse quickly, so society better find a pay rate that gets the job done.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7mo ago
    This thread feels like it went off the rails given that every locale I've ever lived in (many across the US) had fine, working garbage collection, and plenty of competent garbage men who worked for what I'm guessing was decent pay, certainly less than $10 million a year.
    - shiroiuma 7mo ago
      I think in reality, it shouldn't be hard to find people willing to take out garbage by simply paying a little better than other manual-labor jobs. There's always going to be people who can't work other jobs for some reason, so if they're choosing between manual labor jobs, the one that pays more is going to be more attractive. They don't need to pay enough to hire a doctor, because not that many people can do high-value work like that competently.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 7mo ago
        And there will always be people who think that driving around in a heated/air-conditioned truck with a big claw that picks up and empties the cans is a fun job and will happily do it at any reasonable pay level. Not everyone wants to work in an office; some people really like working outside and being indoors is like prison.
        shiroiuma 7mo ago
        Those jobs require some physical handling of the garbage. That big claw doesn't always work as expected, and when things go wrong, they have to get out and clean up the mess. There's also items that don't fit in the can and have to be manually handled. But you're right, the job isn't as bad as it used to be.
        HeyLaughingBoy 7mo ago
        Well, my point wasn't really that the job has gotten easier, it's that some people simply prefer doing that kind of work. I remember being in a meeting once when a manager looked out at the guys on a scaffold cleaning the windows and remarked "at least we don't have to be out there like them." My first thought was that they were probably thinking "at least we don't have to be inside like them."
        hn_throwaway_99 6mo ago
        While I can understand the sentiment, I think most of this is fantasy. A lot of people vastly underestimate the toll manual labor takes on one's body. It may be nice to ponder "Wow, it must be so great to work out in the sunshine all day!", compare anyone doing physical labor (and I count extended driving in that) age 50+ with any office worker 50+. Sure, anyone 50+ has standard aches and pains, but I've seen many physical laborers dealing with constant pain and a lot of degenerative diseases at that age.
- laserlight 7mo ago
  > pays what it's worth to society Pay and worth are different, just like price and value are. Garbage collection is worth a lot, but its pay is determined by market dynamics. As the number of unemployed increases, it will pay less.
  - alex43578 7mo ago
    You left out “at the market clearing price”, then described a scenario where the supply of labor increases and the price drops, proving my exact point.
    - laserlight 7mo ago
      “Worth” and “at the market clearing price” are different concepts, which was my point. The job doesn't pay what it's worth, it pays the market price, which is determined by market dynamics, not how much people value it.
samus 7mo ago
I'm not sure you'll attract the right kind of people with that much money. Probably a lot of people looking for a quick buck will apply, do a good job for long enough to not get outright fired, collect a few cash checks, and then knock it off. I think there would actually be enough people willing to do blue collar jobs if job security is alright. Low-status jobs are defined by low job security, not necessarily by harsh working conditions.

I guarantee you that a lot more people would be willing to put up with it for $10 million a year.

by thfuran 7mo ago

I guarantee you that a lot more people would be willing to put up with it for $10 million a year.

upsuper 7mo ago

You would probably need to face voters questioning whether that's the best way to use their money.

ghaff 7mo ago
In many places, garbage collection is done by competing private firms.

alex43578 7mo ago

Ok, but society can't bear the cost of $10M garbage men, so either people will do it themselves or go without. The same argument applies to any job: in most scenarios, it pays what it's worth to society at the market clearing price. The government can interfere via licensing, minimum wages, quotas, etc; but broadly the job pays what it's worth.

shiroiuma 7mo ago
Society cannot function without garbage people. It must be done or society will collapse quickly, so society better find a pay rate that gets the job done.
- hn_throwaway_99 7mo ago
  This thread feels like it went off the rails given that every locale I've ever lived in (many across the US) had fine, working garbage collection, and plenty of competent garbage men who worked for what I'm guessing was decent pay, certainly less than $10 million a year.
  - shiroiuma 7mo ago
    I think in reality, it shouldn't be hard to find people willing to take out garbage by simply paying a little better than other manual-labor jobs. There's always going to be people who can't work other jobs for some reason, so if they're choosing between manual labor jobs, the one that pays more is going to be more attractive. They don't need to pay enough to hire a doctor, because not that many people can do high-value work like that competently.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 7mo ago
      And there will always be people who think that driving around in a heated/air-conditioned truck with a big claw that picks up and empties the cans is a fun job and will happily do it at any reasonable pay level. Not everyone wants to work in an office; some people really like working outside and being indoors is like prison.
      - shiroiuma 7mo ago
        Those jobs require some physical handling of the garbage. That big claw doesn't always work as expected, and when things go wrong, they have to get out and clean up the mess. There's also items that don't fit in the can and have to be manually handled. But you're right, the job isn't as bad as it used to be.
        HeyLaughingBoy 7mo ago
        Well, my point wasn't really that the job has gotten easier, it's that some people simply prefer doing that kind of work. I remember being in a meeting once when a manager looked out at the guys on a scaffold cleaning the windows and remarked "at least we don't have to be out there like them." My first thought was that they were probably thinking "at least we don't have to be inside like them."
        hn_throwaway_99 6mo ago
        While I can understand the sentiment, I think most of this is fantasy. A lot of people vastly underestimate the toll manual labor takes on one's body. It may be nice to ponder "Wow, it must be so great to work out in the sunshine all day!", compare anyone doing physical labor (and I count extended driving in that) age 50+ with any office worker 50+. Sure, anyone 50+ has standard aches and pains, but I've seen many physical laborers dealing with constant pain and a lot of degenerative diseases at that age.
laserlight 7mo ago
> pays what it's worth to society Pay and worth are different, just like price and value are. Garbage collection is worth a lot, but its pay is determined by market dynamics. As the number of unemployed increases, it will pay less.
- alex43578 7mo ago
  You left out “at the market clearing price”, then described a scenario where the supply of labor increases and the price drops, proving my exact point.
  - laserlight 7mo ago
    “Worth” and “at the market clearing price” are different concepts, which was my point. The job doesn't pay what it's worth, it pays the market price, which is determined by market dynamics, not how much people value it.

samus 7mo ago

I'm not sure you'll attract the right kind of people with that much money. Probably a lot of people looking for a quick buck will apply, do a good job for long enough to not get outright fired, collect a few cash checks, and then knock it off. I think there would actually be enough people willing to do blue collar jobs if job security is alright. Low-status jobs are defined by low job security, not necessarily by harsh working conditions.