5 ms·

If Universal Basic Income was a thing, this would probably happen much faster globally

alephnerd 7mo ago
Japan doesn't have UBI, but it's welfare system is extremely expansive as Article 25 of the Constitution guarantees a minimum standard of living through livelihood, housing, education, and medical assistance. Additonally, Japan has spent decades thinking about this eventuality (at least since the 1970s), which is why Japan worked on the "Flying Geese" paradigm where Japanese public-private ventures would end up become major capital stake holders across Asia, the US, and Europe.
- gkanai 7mo ago
  > "Flying Geese" paradigm Can you name any one of these that are successful or prominent? I am not aware of this paradigm.
  - alephnerd 7mo ago
    Taiwan (1960s onwards), South Korea (1970s onwards), and China (1980s onwards), and investments by what are now Master Trust Bank, Trust & Custody Services Bank, JTSB, and SoftBank.
jazz9k 7mo ago
[flagged]
- 7373737373 7mo ago
  Why would you have to work harder when employers of jobs no one wants to do (for a given wage) have to either increase wages or embrace automation research and development (thereby likely speeding up its systemic adoption and reducing the necessity for manual work even more)? Where developing countries have vendors on the streets, industrialized nations have vending machines instead, by pure economic and demographic necessity. The existence of an automation tool doesn't imply a human having to work harder somewhere else. And why do you assume people would sit around doing nothing? I don't think that's a natural thing for most people to do. How financial and social systems are set up seems to be very much a societal choice, unless it goes against some physical, basic economic or global trade limitation. Interesting note on the native tribes though!
- ngokevin 7mo ago
  This short-term thinking makes me pessimistic about UBI. Everyone's addicted to work despite automation and AI creating less need for work. And thinking we live in a zero-sum game where if someone else is benefiting, it must be hurting them somehow so they must block it. If someone's getting a "handout", they're a lazy bum.
- w4yai 7mo ago
  > In the US, native tribes get ubi when they turn 18. This is a myth; fact check please.
  - themaninthedark 7mo ago
    Tribes don't get UBI. There are payments from the casinos to the tribal members, it kinda looks like UBI from the outside. When I worked as a cashier in Walmart, it was similar to tax refund day. With people buying the largest flat screen TV's and consoles. There were some people who saved their money but the majority used it quickly.
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  UBI is a solution to there not being jobs at all if they're all automated. Now whether we actually get to such a level is debatable.
Kon5ole 7mo ago
The problem with UBI is not that people would stop working, it's that the value of whatever amount is given as UBI will drop very quickly due to inflation. UBI is basically the same as saying "everyone should earn above average".
- defrost 7mo ago
  This is why the Australian 1907 Harvester Decision didn't merely settle on an amount (42 shillings a week) but also included a needs based indexing (support a wife and three children, to feed, house, and clothe them).

Japan doesn't have UBI, but it's welfare system is extremely expansive as Article 25 of the Constitution guarantees a minimum standard of living through livelihood, housing, education, and medical assistance. Additonally, Japan has spent decades thinking about this eventuality (at least since the 1970s), which is why Japan worked on the "Flying Geese" paradigm where Japanese public-private ventures would end up become major capital stake holders across Asia, the US, and Europe.

gkanai 7mo ago
> "Flying Geese" paradigm Can you name any one of these that are successful or prominent? I am not aware of this paradigm.
- alephnerd 7mo ago
  Taiwan (1960s onwards), South Korea (1970s onwards), and China (1980s onwards), and investments by what are now Master Trust Bank, Trust & Custody Services Bank, JTSB, and SoftBank.

jazz9k 7mo ago

[flagged]

7373737373 7mo ago
Why would you have to work harder when employers of jobs no one wants to do (for a given wage) have to either increase wages or embrace automation research and development (thereby likely speeding up its systemic adoption and reducing the necessity for manual work even more)? Where developing countries have vendors on the streets, industrialized nations have vending machines instead, by pure economic and demographic necessity. The existence of an automation tool doesn't imply a human having to work harder somewhere else. And why do you assume people would sit around doing nothing? I don't think that's a natural thing for most people to do. How financial and social systems are set up seems to be very much a societal choice, unless it goes against some physical, basic economic or global trade limitation. Interesting note on the native tribes though!
ngokevin 7mo ago
This short-term thinking makes me pessimistic about UBI. Everyone's addicted to work despite automation and AI creating less need for work. And thinking we live in a zero-sum game where if someone else is benefiting, it must be hurting them somehow so they must block it. If someone's getting a "handout", they're a lazy bum.
w4yai 7mo ago
> In the US, native tribes get ubi when they turn 18. This is a myth; fact check please.
- themaninthedark 7mo ago
  Tribes don't get UBI. There are payments from the casinos to the tribal members, it kinda looks like UBI from the outside. When I worked as a cashier in Walmart, it was similar to tax refund day. With people buying the largest flat screen TV's and consoles. There were some people who saved their money but the majority used it quickly.
satvikpendem 7mo ago
UBI is a solution to there not being jobs at all if they're all automated. Now whether we actually get to such a level is debatable.

Kon5ole 7mo ago

The problem with UBI is not that people would stop working, it's that the value of whatever amount is given as UBI will drop very quickly due to inflation. UBI is basically the same as saying "everyone should earn above average".

defrost 7mo ago
This is why the Australian 1907 Harvester Decision didn't merely settle on an amount (42 shillings a week) but also included a needs based indexing (support a wife and three children, to feed, house, and clothe them).