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I am not a Christian, but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible. Such pr

I am not a Christian, but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible. Such progress happens only in high trust societies.

Ylpertnodi 7mo ago
I suggest you look up the founding fathers' views on religion.
- dotancohen 7mo ago
  I was addressing values, not religion, but I seem to have touched a nerve. I'm not Christian, but I recognize that Christian values lead to high-trust society, leads to innovation in industry and science. > I suggest you look up the founding fathers' views on religion Alright: "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." - George Washington "It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." - George Washington "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams "The Bible contains the most profound philosophy, the most perfect morality, and the most refined policy that ever was conceived upon Earth." - John Adams "I hold the precepts of Jesus, as delivered by himself, to be the most pure, benevolent, and sublime which have ever been preached to man." - Thomas Jefferson "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
  - hackable_sand 7mo ago
    Bro this comment chain is so fucked up Well done
jedberg 7mo ago
> but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible. Many of the founders were specifically anti-Christian. They were deists, and believed in a higher power, but specifically rejected the idea of a divine intervention of God or Jesus. Christians do not own the idea of being nice to others and trusting others.
- TimTheTinker 7mo ago
  Of the 45 delegates to the continental congress, only two (Benjamin Franklin and another) were known to be deists. One's membership records couldn't be found. The other 42 were active members and on the books in their churches.[0] Jefferson also was a deist, but he wasn't present at the constitutional convention of 1787 (though he earlier authored the Declaration of Independence). [0] M. E. Bradford. Founding Fathers: Brief Lives of the Framers of the United States Constitution, second edition. University Press of Kansas, 1994.
  - TimTheTinker 7mo ago
    typo - *55 delegates attended the constitutional congress, 52 of which were on the church registers as active church members. note: only 39 delegates signed the resulting document
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- dotancohen 7mo ago
  I stated that the United States is based on Christian values. Not that the United States is a Christian state. Do you value separation of state and religious authority? Women's rights? Minority rights? Human dignity? Equality before the law? Sanctity of life? Individual moral responsibility? Monogamous marriage? The objective study of history? Fair trial? Witnesses at trial? Tolerance of alternative viewpoints? Those are all Christian values. For what it's worth, I'm not Christian.
  - 7mo ago
satvikpendem 7mo ago
The Renaissance and Enlightenment were anti-religious ideals, of the power of mankind over the gods.
- dotancohen 7mo ago
  Yes, exactly. Being anti-religion does not mean throwing away the entire value system.
  - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > Being anti-religion does not mean throwing away the entire value system It does mean being deeply sceptical of anyone importing a religious value system, or building religious institutions.
mempko 7mo ago
Actually a lot of the enlightenment ideas (which our government is based on) came from native American critiques of European societies. Read The Dawn of Everything for the details.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  This is a bold claim that would do better than a throwaway source.
  - mempko 7mo ago
    The Dawn of Everything is not a throw away source. It's one of the most well researched anthropological and sociological works.
eatsyourtacos 7mo ago
The "Christian value system" isn't something to revere.

Ylpertnodi 7mo ago

I suggest you look up the founding fathers' views on religion.

dotancohen 7mo ago
I was addressing values, not religion, but I seem to have touched a nerve. I'm not Christian, but I recognize that Christian values lead to high-trust society, leads to innovation in industry and science. > I suggest you look up the founding fathers' views on religion Alright: "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." - George Washington "It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." - George Washington "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams "The Bible contains the most profound philosophy, the most perfect morality, and the most refined policy that ever was conceived upon Earth." - John Adams "I hold the precepts of Jesus, as delivered by himself, to be the most pure, benevolent, and sublime which have ever been preached to man." - Thomas Jefferson "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
- hackable_sand 7mo ago
  Bro this comment chain is so fucked up Well done

jedberg 7mo ago

> but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible. Many of the founders were specifically anti-Christian. They were deists, and believed in a higher power, but specifically rejected the idea of a divine intervention of God or Jesus. Christians do not own the idea of being nice to others and trusting others.

TimTheTinker 7mo ago
Of the 45 delegates to the continental congress, only two (Benjamin Franklin and another) were known to be deists. One's membership records couldn't be found. The other 42 were active members and on the books in their churches.[0] Jefferson also was a deist, but he wasn't present at the constitutional convention of 1787 (though he earlier authored the Declaration of Independence). [0] M. E. Bradford. Founding Fathers: Brief Lives of the Framers of the United States Constitution, second edition. University Press of Kansas, 1994.
- TimTheTinker 7mo ago
  typo - *55 delegates attended the constitutional congress, 52 of which were on the church registers as active church members. note: only 39 delegates signed the resulting document
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
dotancohen 7mo ago
I stated that the United States is based on Christian values. Not that the United States is a Christian state. Do you value separation of state and religious authority? Women's rights? Minority rights? Human dignity? Equality before the law? Sanctity of life? Individual moral responsibility? Monogamous marriage? The objective study of history? Fair trial? Witnesses at trial? Tolerance of alternative viewpoints? Those are all Christian values. For what it's worth, I'm not Christian.
- 7mo ago

satvikpendem 7mo ago

The Renaissance and Enlightenment were anti-religious ideals, of the power of mankind over the gods.

dotancohen 7mo ago
Yes, exactly. Being anti-religion does not mean throwing away the entire value system.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > Being anti-religion does not mean throwing away the entire value system It does mean being deeply sceptical of anyone importing a religious value system, or building religious institutions.

mempko 7mo ago

Actually a lot of the enlightenment ideas (which our government is based on) came from native American critiques of European societies. Read The Dawn of Everything for the details.

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
This is a bold claim that would do better than a throwaway source.
- mempko 7mo ago
  The Dawn of Everything is not a throw away source. It's one of the most well researched anthropological and sociological works.

eatsyourtacos 7mo ago

The "Christian value system" isn't something to revere.