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I sure hope they don't. Even just the hint of connecting this achievement to the supposed Christian nature of the US would reinforce a lot of the bad things in
by delecti 6mo ago
I sure hope they don't. Even just the hint of connecting this achievement to the supposed Christian nature of the US would reinforce a lot of the bad things in the world right now. Namely, that we're actively at war in the middle east (Christianity and Judaism vs Islam), in a burgeoning cold war with China (more Christianity vs "godless" communists), and run by an increasingly fascistic administration (the ties between religion and government are a hallmark of fascism).
- dotancohen 6mo agoI am not a Christian, but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible. Such progress happens only in high trust societies.
- Ylpertnodi 6mo agoI suggest you look up the founding fathers' views on religion.
- dotancohen 6mo agoI was addressing values, not religion, but I seem to have touched a nerve. I'm not Christian, but I recognize that Christian values lead to high-trust society, leads to innovation in industry and science. > I suggest you look up the founding fathers' views on religion Alright: "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." - George Washington "It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." - George Washington "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams "The Bible contains the most profound philosophy, the most perfect morality, and the most refined policy that ever was conceived upon Earth." - John Adams "I hold the precepts of Jesus, as delivered by himself, to be the most pure, benevolent, and sublime which have ever been preached to man." - Thomas Jefferson "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
- hackable_sand 6mo agoBro this comment chain is so fucked up Well done
- jedberg 6mo ago> but it was arguably the Christian value system which forged the government and institutions that made these achievements possible. Many of the founders were specifically anti-Christian. They were deists, and believed in a higher power, but specifically rejected the idea of a divine intervention of God or Jesus. Christians do not own the idea of being nice to others and trusting others.
- TimTheTinker 6mo agoOf the 45 delegates to the continental congress, only two (Benjamin Franklin and another) were known to be deists. One's membership records couldn't be found. The other 42 were active members and on the books in their churches.[0] Jefferson also was a deist, but he wasn't present at the constitutional convention of 1787 (though he earlier authored the Declaration of Independence). [0] M. E. Bradford. Founding Fathers: Brief Lives of the Framers of the United States Constitution, second edition. University Press of Kansas, 1994.
- TimTheTinker 6mo agotypo - *55 delegates attended the constitutional congress, 52 of which were on the church registers as active church members. note: only 39 delegates signed the resulting document
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- dotancohen 6mo agoI stated that the United States is based on Christian values. Not that the United States is a Christian state. Do you value separation of state and religious authority? Women's rights? Minority rights? Human dignity? Equality before the law? Sanctity of life? Individual moral responsibility? Monogamous marriage? The objective study of history? Fair trial? Witnesses at trial? Tolerance of alternative viewpoints? Those are all Christian values. For what it's worth, I'm not Christian.
- 6mo ago
- satvikpendem 6mo agoThe Renaissance and Enlightenment were anti-religious ideals, of the power of mankind over the gods.
- dotancohen 6mo agoYes, exactly. Being anti-religion does not mean throwing away the entire value system.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago> Being anti-religion does not mean throwing away the entire value system It does mean being deeply sceptical of anyone importing a religious value system, or building religious institutions.
- mempko 6mo agoActually a lot of the enlightenment ideas (which our government is based on) came from native American critiques of European societies. Read The Dawn of Everything for the details.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo agoThis is a bold claim that would do better than a throwaway source.
- mempko 6mo agoThe Dawn of Everything is not a throw away source. It's one of the most well researched anthropological and sociological works.
- eatsyourtacos 6mo agoThe "Christian value system" isn't something to revere.
- pigpop 6mo agoI'm more worried about Chinese fascism than the American kind.
- delecti 6mo agoChina may be authoritarian (I would agree that they are), but they're not fascist. They're also a much smaller threat to anyone living in the US. I'm more worried about the jackbooted thugs on my own streets than the ones halfway around the world.
- throwaway25231 6mo agoCan you explain what "Chinese fascism" is? Not citizen of any super-power, but how can you be sure you're not fallen under some propaganda where you see "them" as being evil and not just some other-way-of-living?
- pigpop 6mo agoI didn't say I see China as evil. You're conflating the word fascism with the word evil. They have distinct definitions, at least when you're not spreading propaganda.
- scotty79 6mo agoOne of the astronauts is Sunday school teacher and took the Bible up there with him as a comfort item. It was mentioned in the news already. https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/there-are-no-atheists-in-rockets-says-christian-pilot-of-artemis-ii https://premierchristian.news/en/news/article/there-are-no-a... Don't shoot the messenger
- delecti 6mo agoSurely you can see the difference between broadcasting a bible read from the module and him carrying that bible as a personal item. I certainly think there's a very stark difference between the two. I absolutely support people rights to whatever deeply held beliefs bring them comfort; I do not support him using his position literally and metaphorically atop a multi-billion dollar government project to proselytize.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- scotty79 6mo agoI just wished people were more original in choosing beliefs to hold deeply instead of just subscribing to a multi-billinon dollar church that has multiple governments in their pockets.
- Liftyee 6mo agoI imagine you're quoting rhetoric, but anyone describing China as "communist" hasn't seen the scale of shopping malls and consumerism here. Authoritarian, fine, but far from communist.