4 ms·

Cynical outcome: the system can't handle the case load and instead of scaling, it just refuses to adjudicate any dispute that doesn't involve a noble. Justice

Cynical outcome: the system can't handle the case load and instead of scaling, it just refuses to adjudicate any dispute that doesn't involve a noble. Justice between commoners is effectively abandoned as a duty by the state, and left to vigilantism.

seany 6mo ago
This seems implicitly preferable than the beauacratic death of the alternative.
- saltwatercowboy 6mo ago
  Neither are acceptable, so a third way must be found
- mikkupikku 6mo ago
  I really do appreciate the sentiment, and in a flippant sense I agree, but if we're being real, the potential for harm to innocents, at least in the short/near term, is far greater if society devolves into vigilante mobs; study the Cultural Revolution if you want a realistic picture of some of the failure modes here. On the other hand, a period of chaos might be beneficial in the long term; that's the accelerationist position. Worth considering, but be careful with that mode of thinking. The ends justifying the means has gotten a great many people killed for ends that never manifested.
cogman10 6mo ago
> it just refuses to adjudicate any dispute that doesn't involve a noble Oh I got news for you, that already happened. Anyone that's had their car broken into, bike stolen, or house burgled can tell you that cops won't do anything. And if you look at serious crimes like homicide, you'll find a clearance rate of about 66%. And that's their self reported clearance rate. It's not successful prosecution. That's just the "we've looked into this enough and have decreed we think this person did it". It's a lot worse if you look at crimes like rape. The crimes that police actually police are property crimes. Specifically for the nobles. Cops are pretty good at responding to stores being robbed or a crime against a wealthy and well connected person. Steal $1000 from a target and you'll get the book thrown at you. Steal a $1000 bike in front of the same target and cops will shrug and say there's nothing they can do about it.
- SoftTalker 6mo ago
  Your example is flawed because Target has cameras and a security staff watching for shoplifters, and they will detain you as you walk out the door, and they will provide video and eyewitness testimony to the prosecutor. It's a slam dunk case. The shoplifters who do manage to walk out undetected are of no interest to the police, as there's no basis for a case against them.
  - cogman10 6mo ago
    Target has security cameras on the outside and staff constantly walking around wrangling carts. That's why I picked this exact example. The evidence is pretty much the same. At many locations, cars at grocery stores get broken into pretty frequently. Yet it's unusual for cops to ever do anything about those cases. That's not due to a lack of evidence, most grocery stores have cameras throughout the lot. Hell, it's even less of an excuse today due to the amount of surveillance via flock cameras cities have adopted. Yet cops still don't do a thing about this sort of theft.
    - SoftTalker 6mo ago
      Kids picking up carts aren't going to detain anyone. It's the detaining that makes it work. The cops just come pick them up, they have eyewitnesses and video. Easy work. The security guards that do the actual detaining are often off-duty LEO picking up extra hours. Even Kroger here has an armed officer at the exit door. So they can legally detain you and even arrest you. True that they don't care about the bike outside. It's not their property.
    - stackskipton 6mo ago
      Cops don't do anything about theft if it does not rise to level of a felony period. Most shoplifters don't get arrested until they hit felony level either. Reason they get arrested for felony shoplifting is big box stores gift wrap those convictions. They have watched them, tracked exact items they have stolen down to UPC with price, have all the video/spreadsheet and it's all handed to cop/prosecutor on DVD. Those cases are so easy for prosecutor because conviction rate is ~100% and any testifying required is all paid for by big box store. On bigger note, as society, we don't know how to handle people who have antisocial behavior. I'm not talking big stuff but low-level stuff that still impacts quality of life.
tsss 6mo ago
This is already happening in Germany.
- subscribed 6mo ago
  And the UK. Burglary? Theft? Biker robbed at the knife point? The police will try to discourage from reporting that at all, and if you insist you'll get the crime number and promise that nothing will ever be done. They even refuse to send the patrol that could recover a stolen car despite the owner pinpointing it to the very specific garage based on the GPS tracking. The police will, however, beat you and arrest if you dare ro protest against killing kids with bombs.
cindyllm 6mo ago
[dead]
graybeardhacker 6mo ago
In Maine there is a lack of public defenders and now must release those who are unable to get a trial in a reasonable time: https://observer-me.com/2025/03/12/news/maine-must-release-people-from-jail-drop-charges-if-no-lawyer-available-justice-rules/ https://observer-me.com/2025/03/12/news/maine-must-release-p...

seany 6mo ago

This seems implicitly preferable than the beauacratic death of the alternative.

saltwatercowboy 6mo ago
Neither are acceptable, so a third way must be found
mikkupikku 6mo ago
I really do appreciate the sentiment, and in a flippant sense I agree, but if we're being real, the potential for harm to innocents, at least in the short/near term, is far greater if society devolves into vigilante mobs; study the Cultural Revolution if you want a realistic picture of some of the failure modes here. On the other hand, a period of chaos might be beneficial in the long term; that's the accelerationist position. Worth considering, but be careful with that mode of thinking. The ends justifying the means has gotten a great many people killed for ends that never manifested.

cogman10 6mo ago

> it just refuses to adjudicate any dispute that doesn't involve a noble Oh I got news for you, that already happened. Anyone that's had their car broken into, bike stolen, or house burgled can tell you that cops won't do anything. And if you look at serious crimes like homicide, you'll find a clearance rate of about 66%. And that's their self reported clearance rate. It's not successful prosecution. That's just the "we've looked into this enough and have decreed we think this person did it". It's a lot worse if you look at crimes like rape. The crimes that police actually police are property crimes. Specifically for the nobles. Cops are pretty good at responding to stores being robbed or a crime against a wealthy and well connected person. Steal $1000 from a target and you'll get the book thrown at you. Steal a $1000 bike in front of the same target and cops will shrug and say there's nothing they can do about it.

SoftTalker 6mo ago
Your example is flawed because Target has cameras and a security staff watching for shoplifters, and they will detain you as you walk out the door, and they will provide video and eyewitness testimony to the prosecutor. It's a slam dunk case. The shoplifters who do manage to walk out undetected are of no interest to the police, as there's no basis for a case against them.
- cogman10 6mo ago
  Target has security cameras on the outside and staff constantly walking around wrangling carts. That's why I picked this exact example. The evidence is pretty much the same. At many locations, cars at grocery stores get broken into pretty frequently. Yet it's unusual for cops to ever do anything about those cases. That's not due to a lack of evidence, most grocery stores have cameras throughout the lot. Hell, it's even less of an excuse today due to the amount of surveillance via flock cameras cities have adopted. Yet cops still don't do a thing about this sort of theft.
  - SoftTalker 6mo ago
    Kids picking up carts aren't going to detain anyone. It's the detaining that makes it work. The cops just come pick them up, they have eyewitnesses and video. Easy work. The security guards that do the actual detaining are often off-duty LEO picking up extra hours. Even Kroger here has an armed officer at the exit door. So they can legally detain you and even arrest you. True that they don't care about the bike outside. It's not their property.
  - stackskipton 6mo ago
    Cops don't do anything about theft if it does not rise to level of a felony period. Most shoplifters don't get arrested until they hit felony level either. Reason they get arrested for felony shoplifting is big box stores gift wrap those convictions. They have watched them, tracked exact items they have stolen down to UPC with price, have all the video/spreadsheet and it's all handed to cop/prosecutor on DVD. Those cases are so easy for prosecutor because conviction rate is ~100% and any testifying required is all paid for by big box store. On bigger note, as society, we don't know how to handle people who have antisocial behavior. I'm not talking big stuff but low-level stuff that still impacts quality of life.

tsss 6mo ago

This is already happening in Germany.

subscribed 6mo ago
And the UK. Burglary? Theft? Biker robbed at the knife point? The police will try to discourage from reporting that at all, and if you insist you'll get the crime number and promise that nothing will ever be done. They even refuse to send the patrol that could recover a stolen car despite the owner pinpointing it to the very specific garage based on the GPS tracking. The police will, however, beat you and arrest if you dare ro protest against killing kids with bombs.

cindyllm 6mo ago

[dead]

graybeardhacker 6mo ago

In Maine there is a lack of public defenders and now must release those who are unable to get a trial in a reasonable time: https://observer-me.com/2025/03/12/news/maine-must-release-people-from-jail-drop-charges-if-no-lawyer-available-justice-rules/ https://observer-me.com/2025/03/12/news/maine-must-release-p...