4 ms·

Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? If you were averse to carrots (without any health restrictions on eating them), would every government institution in

Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? If you were averse to carrots (without any health restrictions on eating them), would every government institution in Germany be required to serve you carrot-free food? If not, why should they be forced to accommodate every smartphone brand in existence, even if there's only 3 people in Germany using it? THe list has to end somewhere.

RobotToaster 7mo ago
> Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? Can't speak for Germany, but they do in the UK. It would be illegal discrimination against a belief for them not to.
- vovavili 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - sotix 7mo ago
    Vegetables, legumes, nuts, and grains are not expensive, and veganism is a protected class in the UK.
    - plagiarist 7mo ago
      Yeah but when you're mad at a nation not force-feeding meat to vegans you have to come up with some reason why the vegans are bad.
    - account42 7mo ago
      Having a separate option is however not free.
  - aziaziazi 7mo ago
    Actually the subsidies mostly go to diary farming. Vegan food is cheap to produce but mostly not subsidised. This, plus the (no) economy of scale makes the shelf prices sometimes slightly higher, eg soy milk vs defatted milk.
  - RobotToaster 7mo ago
    Would you say the same if they refused to serve kosher/halal meals for Muslim/Jewish patients? UK law protects some philosophical beliefs equally to religions. (what qualifies is a bit of a mess as it's all case law) (On a practical note, I imagine it's easier for hospitals to just serve vegan food for anyone who is vegetarian/Muslim/Jewish rather than have specific kosher/halal meals)
    - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
      Actual yes since I think all religions are illogical…
    - vovavili 7mo ago
      Religion tends to be more constitutive to a person's self-identity than purity signalling dietary trends.
      - tga_d 7mo ago
        Setting aside the fact that there are multiple very old, very large religions that are nearly or actually vegan (e.g., Jainism), or that people raised vegan can't easily digest meat or animal products, why on earth do you feel that you or a hospital worker are qualified to determine the beliefs making up someone's identity, when you know absolutely nothing about them?
        vovavili 7mo ago
        It took Western government institutions hundreds of years of violent conflict to embrace religious tolerance. I don't recall any major intense violent conflict being fought over dietary preferences.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
  - conception 7mo ago
    Lol at eating just plants as being expensive. You do know where animals that are eaten get their food right?
    - account42 7mo ago
      Mostly from plants that humans can't or at least wouldn't want to eat.
b112 7mo ago
While the example your provide is reasonable fair, the comparison is not. For it to be fair comparison, the carrots would have to be grown by a foreign company, known for using unsafe growing practices, causing contamination. Eg, poison carrots. This same company would have to be under the control of a very hostile, very actively aggressive and threatening nation. Such as one currently threatening to annex allies, among other things. With the US literally tapping and spying on heads of foreign states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Parliamentary_Committee_investigation_of_the_NSA_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Parliamentary_Committee... and there being lots of ways to spy, such as push notifications: https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments... Only insane people would objectively decide to use Google or Apple anything for any form of ID. Those platforms should literally be outlawed. Any use of push notifications or identity attention should be looked at as utter fantasy. Here's a secret for you. There really isn't any urgent requirement to have an electronic identification method. It can wait. Supporting legislation can be passed first. There are lots of ways to do so. For example, the entire EU could pass legislation stating that all cell phones have open source code available, including all binary blobs for drivers. And that all phones are unlockable, and that (for example) the phone has a version of the rom you can download without any Google services. (If Apple isn't able to compete here, well... too bad) The phones would not be legal to sell, unless the open source firmware was compiled in front of regulators. The point of this is another pet-peeve of mine, it would allow people to support their own phones, for that source code would be released the day that phone was no longer supported. And yes, it's trivial to have open source firmware blobs. There just isn't a market for it. Pass a law, and sellers of SoC and other ICs will capitulate, or maybe more punitive laws will be passed against them. As someone once said, yes companies can have a lot of sway. But governments have police, courts, and armies. Right now, Android and Apple devices are a literal arm of the US government's spying apparatus, even if those two companies actively work against it. Do not trust Google Play. Do not trust Firebase. Do not trust Google. At all. Are Germans just too trusting? I remember 15 years ago, when nuclear power plants were closing, concerns were raised about the reliance on Russian natural gas. These were waved away. Russia? What's wrong with Russia! They're almost allies, they're capitalists now! Don't do this again. Do NOT trust Google. Don't. Don't make it a core part of any identity management. Imagine, needing an active Google account to even bank! Or to file your taxes, or even to prove who you are!? Google cancels accounts with no recourse, no reason why, won't help anyone, and this is to be the core of identity management for Germany? The average person won't even be able to install any German Government designed apps, unless they are on the Play store! Are you going to teach Grandma how to use ADB to install an app? Without an active Google Account, will you even be able to use push notifications? Why would a government even allow ID to be blocked by the requirement that a company with terrible, horrible, inane customer service, which just kills accounts without recourse, be a gatekeeper? No Google account, no ID! Wha!? It's literally not sane.
faust201 7mo ago
They do.
haagch 7mo ago
Lots of hospitals don't even serve healthy food in any sense, so expecting a good coverage of dietary options is optimistic... But to answer the question in a real way: Veganism is often regarded as just a dietary choice like any other, when in reality courts in several countries have more or less agreed to classify it as a matter of conscience, which would give adherents some right to it. Though it seems German courts have been reluctant to draw much legal consequence from it - so far at least. So in that sense, I don't think people have been talking about digital sovereignty and abstaining from proprietary software under another country's jurisdiction much as a matter of conscience yet. We can thank Trump that it might actually become a thing though.
preisschild 7mo ago
You are forgetting that by not allowing more open platforms they effectively force you to accept Apple/Google EULA's essentially forcing you to give your private data to Google/Apple.
dgellow 7mo ago
The ones I’m aware of do, yes

RobotToaster 7mo ago

> Do all German hospitals serve vegan food? Can't speak for Germany, but they do in the UK. It would be illegal discrimination against a belief for them not to.

vovavili 7mo ago
[flagged]
- sotix 7mo ago
  Vegetables, legumes, nuts, and grains are not expensive, and veganism is a protected class in the UK.
  - plagiarist 7mo ago
    Yeah but when you're mad at a nation not force-feeding meat to vegans you have to come up with some reason why the vegans are bad.
  - account42 7mo ago
    Having a separate option is however not free.
- aziaziazi 7mo ago
  Actually the subsidies mostly go to diary farming. Vegan food is cheap to produce but mostly not subsidised. This, plus the (no) economy of scale makes the shelf prices sometimes slightly higher, eg soy milk vs defatted milk.
- RobotToaster 7mo ago
  Would you say the same if they refused to serve kosher/halal meals for Muslim/Jewish patients? UK law protects some philosophical beliefs equally to religions. (what qualifies is a bit of a mess as it's all case law) (On a practical note, I imagine it's easier for hospitals to just serve vegan food for anyone who is vegetarian/Muslim/Jewish rather than have specific kosher/halal meals)
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    Actual yes since I think all religions are illogical…
  - vovavili 7mo ago
    Religion tends to be more constitutive to a person's self-identity than purity signalling dietary trends.
    - tga_d 7mo ago
      Setting aside the fact that there are multiple very old, very large religions that are nearly or actually vegan (e.g., Jainism), or that people raised vegan can't easily digest meat or animal products, why on earth do you feel that you or a hospital worker are qualified to determine the beliefs making up someone's identity, when you know absolutely nothing about them?
      - vovavili 7mo ago
        It took Western government institutions hundreds of years of violent conflict to embrace religious tolerance. I don't recall any major intense violent conflict being fought over dietary preferences.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
- conception 7mo ago
  Lol at eating just plants as being expensive. You do know where animals that are eaten get their food right?
  - account42 7mo ago
    Mostly from plants that humans can't or at least wouldn't want to eat.

b112 7mo ago

While the example your provide is reasonable fair, the comparison is not. For it to be fair comparison, the carrots would have to be grown by a foreign company, known for using unsafe growing practices, causing contamination. Eg, poison carrots. This same company would have to be under the control of a very hostile, very actively aggressive and threatening nation. Such as one currently threatening to annex allies, among other things. With the US literally tapping and spying on heads of foreign states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Parliamentary_Committee_investigation_of_the_NSA_spying_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Parliamentary_Committee... and there being lots of ways to spy, such as push notifications: https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments... Only insane people would objectively decide to use Google or Apple anything for any form of ID. Those platforms should literally be outlawed. Any use of push notifications or identity attention should be looked at as utter fantasy. Here's a secret for you. There really isn't any urgent requirement to have an electronic identification method. It can wait. Supporting legislation can be passed first. There are lots of ways to do so. For example, the entire EU could pass legislation stating that all cell phones have open source code available, including all binary blobs for drivers. And that all phones are unlockable, and that (for example) the phone has a version of the rom you can download without any Google services. (If Apple isn't able to compete here, well... too bad) The phones would not be legal to sell, unless the open source firmware was compiled in front of regulators. The point of this is another pet-peeve of mine, it would allow people to support their own phones, for that source code would be released the day that phone was no longer supported. And yes, it's trivial to have open source firmware blobs. There just isn't a market for it. Pass a law, and sellers of SoC and other ICs will capitulate, or maybe more punitive laws will be passed against them. As someone once said, yes companies can have a lot of sway. But governments have police, courts, and armies. Right now, Android and Apple devices are a literal arm of the US government's spying apparatus, even if those two companies actively work against it. Do not trust Google Play. Do not trust Firebase. Do not trust Google. At all. Are Germans just too trusting? I remember 15 years ago, when nuclear power plants were closing, concerns were raised about the reliance on Russian natural gas. These were waved away. Russia? What's wrong with Russia! They're almost allies, they're capitalists now! Don't do this again. Do NOT trust Google. Don't. Don't make it a core part of any identity management. Imagine, needing an active Google account to even bank! Or to file your taxes, or even to prove who you are!? Google cancels accounts with no recourse, no reason why, won't help anyone, and this is to be the core of identity management for Germany? The average person won't even be able to install any German Government designed apps, unless they are on the Play store! Are you going to teach Grandma how to use ADB to install an app? Without an active Google Account, will you even be able to use push notifications? Why would a government even allow ID to be blocked by the requirement that a company with terrible, horrible, inane customer service, which just kills accounts without recourse, be a gatekeeper? No Google account, no ID! Wha!? It's literally not sane.

faust201 7mo ago

They do.

haagch 7mo ago

Lots of hospitals don't even serve healthy food in any sense, so expecting a good coverage of dietary options is optimistic... But to answer the question in a real way: Veganism is often regarded as just a dietary choice like any other, when in reality courts in several countries have more or less agreed to classify it as a matter of conscience, which would give adherents some right to it. Though it seems German courts have been reluctant to draw much legal consequence from it - so far at least. So in that sense, I don't think people have been talking about digital sovereignty and abstaining from proprietary software under another country's jurisdiction much as a matter of conscience yet. We can thank Trump that it might actually become a thing though.

preisschild 7mo ago

You are forgetting that by not allowing more open platforms they effectively force you to accept Apple/Google EULA's essentially forcing you to give your private data to Google/Apple.

dgellow 7mo ago

The ones I’m aware of do, yes