6 ms·

BlackBerry 10 is Going to Have the Best Web Browser of Any Mobile Platform

38 points by techvibes 14y ago

smallsharptools 14y ago
Wow, if BlackBerry really thinks a better browser will help them retain more customers they really don't get why people prefer iPhone and Android phones. And consulting with the HTML5 team at Facebook which just rushed to quickly rewrite their mobile apps to 100% native apps after failing to leverage an HTML5/Native hybrid approach they are just digging the hole that much more. The reason the iPhone is so popular is because 1) people are excited about it 2) great native apps make people excited because they do useful or fun things quickly 3) the iPhone is part of a rich ecosystem with services for music and apps. The iPhone ecosystem includes cloud and desktop integration along with support from the top rated e-commerce site as well as local support with award winner retail stores. That great customer service matters a lot to mobile phone customers who often expect a lot from their phones. With BlackBerry you get a phone from a carrier which has a poorly trained sales staff which cannot help you and often does not care. If I have an issue with my iPhone I can go into a nearby Apple Store and have my issues resolved quickly, and if necessary, they give me replacement hardware. And BlackBerry is putting out a better web browser? Better than what? Better than the poor browser they had previously I suppose. Apple has had a great browser from the beginning. BlackBerry does not get it. And if they want to catch up they need to do more than tweak their system. There should be an entire ecosystem built around it, but it is already too late. Android is already eating up all the space which Apple has not and Windows Phone is scrounging for scraps. Very little will be left for BlackBerry. They never innovated after they reached their peak. That's how the mighty fall. I hope Apple keeps innovating. I think they are due to push it this coming year. More integration between the iPhone with other aspects of our lives from TV to our cars would be great and we've already seen rumors that is coming.
- arihant 14y ago
  Have you even tried developing for BB10? Converting a mobile webapp to BB10 to native app takes merely few hours. BB10 supports Phonegap out of the box (their dev tools have simulator for it). They have their own version of something very similar to Phonegap but a little richer. You can port any Phonegap app to BB10 and use their JS API's for deeper integration. BB10 is RIM betting on HTML5 for native apps as well. If they can optimize the experience nearly as good as native Java apps - this could be the next tide. You gotta look at the future where developing for 5-6 platforms would be a pain. Microsoft is betting on similar approach for Windows 8. Win is at the next tide - not the one that Apple rode 5 years ago.
  - nodemaker 14y ago
    In five years, native apps will be much better too. So it would require HTML5 apps to not only be better than native apps from now but also native apps from the future to be considered as cool. I dont think this a very good bet since in the end the browser itself is a native app!
    - ams6110 14y ago
      This argument has been made in every generation of thin-client vs. fat-client technology for the past few decades. We still have both, and probably always will: each has its strengths.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
  - uzusan 14y ago
    Having just finished writing a phonegap app (or Cordova as it is now known), this makes me much less likely to want to use BB10. I've only used Cordova on ios and android (simply because blackberry has such as small percentage of the target it is not worth the investment). Native apps are much nicer and easier to code, regardless of the platform. And don't even get me started on the mess that is trying to use JS frameworks such as Jquery mobile to actually do something useful. Such as facebook or twitter integration. Cross platform app development is a good ideal but none of the current platforms can do it in a way that isn't a horrendous pain.
- maratd 14y ago
  > Wow, if BlackBerry really thinks a better browser will help them retain more customers they really don't get why people prefer iPhone and Android phones. Blackberry doesn't have a choice. They're in a tough spot. They need to "skip" a generation, if they have any hope of survival. Things are moving toward web/html5 tech and that is the future. Not now, but in a few years. All of the direct-hardware-access stuff is being worked on right now. Even now, you can build metro/Windows 8 apps using html5. There's Firefox OS. WebOS is barely alive, but still kicking. And, of course, there's the simple argument that the most important and popular app on both iOS and Android is the web browser.
scovetta 14y ago
This is a great example of how RIM is "doing it wrong". No one really cares about things like Flash, "Best HTML 5! OMG! like. EVER!", or "Most Secure E-Mail, Like, EVER!". People care about the user experience, the ecosystem (read: apps, for now), integration, trust, and the "wow" factor. Spitting in the wind, though, I suppose.
- rescripting 14y ago
  I think the strategy is to let the browser be a platform for application development. The better the foundation, the more robust and varied apps developers can build, the stronger the ecosystem. Looking at it from the perspective of "so what if the browser is standards compliant, users don't care about benchmarks" is a bit short sighted since it's not just about the browser, it's about the foundation of the phone's ecosystem.
WrkInProgress 14y ago
I believe it was Elop who said it is now a war of ecosystems. And he was very right. I don't think having the best web browser is going to do much beyond making life a little easier for early adpoters.
- SwellJoe 14y ago
  If your ecosystem is "the entire Internet", I'd say it's a pretty good ecosystem to start with for BB10. I'm not particularly excited about BlackBerry, and never have been their target audience, but a good browser is absolutely one of the most important factors in my phone decision. I still believe in the power of the open web over closed ecosystems, despite the billions Apple makes from their App Store. I'm hopeful that the open web will win on the phone, just as it has begun to win on the desktop. And in that world, it won't matter what OS you run, as long as your phone has a competent browser. Sounds like BB10 will have a very competent browser. That's not to say I believe RIM can pull out of this nosedive, but at least they're making moves in the right directions, for the first time in years (I think; I haven't seen anything else from them that makes me think they understand the new reality of the mobile landscape).
hamidpalo 14y ago
Passing benchmark suites doesn't matter. User experience does, and that is still very much an unknown.
tobiasbischoff 14y ago
let's compare again. when they shipped.
Mvandenbergh 14y ago
Their idea of the "Best Web Browser" is passing a standards compliance test with top marks?
- SwellJoe 14y ago
  That's a big part of my idea of a good web browser, as well.
  - aes256 14y ago
    Alas, you are not the average person.
    - mtgx 14y ago
      What's a "great" browser for the average person, then? One that can't run good web apps properly?
      - SquareWheel 14y ago
        I would agree on passing standard compliance, but a great browser should allow fluid swipes, many tabs, syncing between phones or devices, and render things accurately and quickly. The look of the chrome is just as important as the look of the page, and the feel of navigation is the most important of all.
  - Steko 14y ago
    The big problem here is that the browser test was developed by Facebook so it probably only passes the test if all kinds of creepy tracking features are ON.
hemancuso 14y ago
Predictably there are a lot of haters on the thread, but can't we look at this as a good thing? A great browser won't be anywhere near enough to win, but a crappy browser is game over. I, for one, would like more competing platforms rather than fewer.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- aes256 14y ago
  BlackBerry aren't even in the competition anymore. It's over for them.
  - whatshisface 14y ago
    I would buy one, and so would pretty much any company. A vibrant developer community is a big minus for big companies with no need for custom software, because that means there will be people figuring out how to root the devices (and worms, ect). If blackberry fails in the consumer market, the commercial market will save it. As for the consumer market, who doesn't love seeing new ways to do things? Andriod and Iphone are old and boring now, and Windows Phone 8 is not my cup of tea. (Oh, just remembered firefox OS. Is that a thing still?)
    - AlexDanger 14y ago
      > If blackberry fails in the consumer market, the commercial market will save it. Why? Blackberry's grip on the corporate market was destroyed by execs coming to work with their iPhones and demanding that IT depts connect them to the corporate infrastructure. Remember, IT works for the business - not the other way around.
      - ghshephard 14y ago
        True in most cases - but, in some organizations, IT has ludicrous amounts of policy power that surpass what any rational person would think should be allocated to it. In particular, Yahoo!'s IT organization kept Blackberry's as the Mobile Platform of choice, for a company whose major future growth is going to come from Mobile Consumer usage - far longer than it ever should have. Eventually, though, somebody gets around to knocking heads, and IT typically falls in line...
timmclean 14y ago
Even better than Firefox OS?
benwerd 14y ago
Great! That means I can write my application for the web and I don't have to worry about directly addressing the BlackBerry platform.
- azakai 14y ago
  Yes, that's true. I assume you meant that sarcastically, as in "look how BlackBerry are killing off developer interest in their own platform"? Regardless of sarcasm or not, this is the best play RIM has - to use an existing platform and not rely on people developing specifically for them. That's the only hope for the underdog platforms (i.e., everyone except for Android and iOS).
leoh 14y ago
This is ridiculous. Let's look at the iPhone for example. There are several browsers available, all which are highly compliant. I use Chrome, however, not because of its compliance, but because at the moment, it's the fastest, allows for more tabs, and just feels more fun to use. Blackberry will lose this game because they don't know how to do good UI. And this nonsense about working with Facebook is just laughable.
- joenathan 14y ago
  There is only one browser available for the iPhone and several different "skins" for that browser.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  In case joenathan's comment isn't obvious, all iOS apps use the same core WebKit library to provide for their "browser" experiences. It's an embedded UIWebView I believe. All "browsers" have to use this because Apple. [1] [1] That's not fair, it's a JIT thing but then again you can have full other engines on Android if you like (see: Chrome for Android).
se85 14y ago
I sure hope they didn't use Facebook's HTML5 expertise in building the BB10.
randomfool 14y ago
I've had a number of my WebKit bugs fixed by folks at RIM recently (hopefully not because they caused them!). Thrilled that they're contributing. I really hope their work lasts much longer than RIM.
rileyt 14y ago
As much as I would love to stop even pretending to care about dealing with blackberry's brutal web browser, I still think that this title is way to bold and extremely unlikely...
nnq 14y ago
...the only thing that could motivate me nowadays to write a BB version of a mobile app would be the ability to use HTML5 and javascript and just have the same app on both Android and BB... so if the browser is better than what 90% of Android users have, I wouldn't care, because I'd be targeting the Android webkit browser... Android won, so they should first strive for compatibility first (and HTML5 apps seems the only way for them) and then show off any superior features their OS may have on top of this... ...it seems that they are running through the woods without a map (AGAIN!) right now, and it really doesn't matter how fast they can run or climb trees if they don't know where they're going [EDIT: added what's next] my 2 cents for RIM: throw some money at Xamarin (http://xamarin.com http://xamarin.com) to make BB a target for their app development platform... putting your eggs in the multiplatform basket would seem like the only sensible decision now that your basket is hosed / on fire, and enterprise devs that would be more inclined to target BB will probably prefer C#...

38 points by techvibes 14y ago

Wow, if BlackBerry really thinks a better browser will help them retain more customers they really don't get why people prefer iPhone and Android phones. And consulting with the HTML5 team at Facebook which just rushed to quickly rewrite their mobile apps to 100% native apps after failing to leverage an HTML5/Native hybrid approach they are just digging the hole that much more. The reason the iPhone is so popular is because 1) people are excited about it 2) great native apps make people excited because they do useful or fun things quickly 3) the iPhone is part of a rich ecosystem with services for music and apps. The iPhone ecosystem includes cloud and desktop integration along with support from the top rated e-commerce site as well as local support with award winner retail stores. That great customer service matters a lot to mobile phone customers who often expect a lot from their phones. With BlackBerry you get a phone from a carrier which has a poorly trained sales staff which cannot help you and often does not care. If I have an issue with my iPhone I can go into a nearby Apple Store and have my issues resolved quickly, and if necessary, they give me replacement hardware. And BlackBerry is putting out a better web browser? Better than what? Better than the poor browser they had previously I suppose. Apple has had a great browser from the beginning. BlackBerry does not get it. And if they want to catch up they need to do more than tweak their system. There should be an entire ecosystem built around it, but it is already too late. Android is already eating up all the space which Apple has not and Windows Phone is scrounging for scraps. Very little will be left for BlackBerry. They never innovated after they reached their peak. That's how the mighty fall. I hope Apple keeps innovating. I think they are due to push it this coming year. More integration between the iPhone with other aspects of our lives from TV to our cars would be great and we've already seen rumors that is coming.

arihant 14y ago
Have you even tried developing for BB10? Converting a mobile webapp to BB10 to native app takes merely few hours. BB10 supports Phonegap out of the box (their dev tools have simulator for it). They have their own version of something very similar to Phonegap but a little richer. You can port any Phonegap app to BB10 and use their JS API's for deeper integration. BB10 is RIM betting on HTML5 for native apps as well. If they can optimize the experience nearly as good as native Java apps - this could be the next tide. You gotta look at the future where developing for 5-6 platforms would be a pain. Microsoft is betting on similar approach for Windows 8. Win is at the next tide - not the one that Apple rode 5 years ago.
- nodemaker 14y ago
  In five years, native apps will be much better too. So it would require HTML5 apps to not only be better than native apps from now but also native apps from the future to be considered as cool. I dont think this a very good bet since in the end the browser itself is a native app!
  - ams6110 14y ago
    This argument has been made in every generation of thin-client vs. fat-client technology for the past few decades. We still have both, and probably always will: each has its strengths.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
- uzusan 14y ago
  Having just finished writing a phonegap app (or Cordova as it is now known), this makes me much less likely to want to use BB10. I've only used Cordova on ios and android (simply because blackberry has such as small percentage of the target it is not worth the investment). Native apps are much nicer and easier to code, regardless of the platform. And don't even get me started on the mess that is trying to use JS frameworks such as Jquery mobile to actually do something useful. Such as facebook or twitter integration. Cross platform app development is a good ideal but none of the current platforms can do it in a way that isn't a horrendous pain.
maratd 14y ago
> Wow, if BlackBerry really thinks a better browser will help them retain more customers they really don't get why people prefer iPhone and Android phones. Blackberry doesn't have a choice. They're in a tough spot. They need to "skip" a generation, if they have any hope of survival. Things are moving toward web/html5 tech and that is the future. Not now, but in a few years. All of the direct-hardware-access stuff is being worked on right now. Even now, you can build metro/Windows 8 apps using html5. There's Firefox OS. WebOS is barely alive, but still kicking. And, of course, there's the simple argument that the most important and popular app on both iOS and Android is the web browser.

scovetta 14y ago

This is a great example of how RIM is "doing it wrong". No one really cares about things like Flash, "Best HTML 5! OMG! like. EVER!", or "Most Secure E-Mail, Like, EVER!". People care about the user experience, the ecosystem (read: apps, for now), integration, trust, and the "wow" factor. Spitting in the wind, though, I suppose.

rescripting 14y ago
I think the strategy is to let the browser be a platform for application development. The better the foundation, the more robust and varied apps developers can build, the stronger the ecosystem. Looking at it from the perspective of "so what if the browser is standards compliant, users don't care about benchmarks" is a bit short sighted since it's not just about the browser, it's about the foundation of the phone's ecosystem.

WrkInProgress 14y ago

I believe it was Elop who said it is now a war of ecosystems. And he was very right. I don't think having the best web browser is going to do much beyond making life a little easier for early adpoters.

SwellJoe 14y ago
If your ecosystem is "the entire Internet", I'd say it's a pretty good ecosystem to start with for BB10. I'm not particularly excited about BlackBerry, and never have been their target audience, but a good browser is absolutely one of the most important factors in my phone decision. I still believe in the power of the open web over closed ecosystems, despite the billions Apple makes from their App Store. I'm hopeful that the open web will win on the phone, just as it has begun to win on the desktop. And in that world, it won't matter what OS you run, as long as your phone has a competent browser. Sounds like BB10 will have a very competent browser. That's not to say I believe RIM can pull out of this nosedive, but at least they're making moves in the right directions, for the first time in years (I think; I haven't seen anything else from them that makes me think they understand the new reality of the mobile landscape).

hamidpalo 14y ago

Passing benchmark suites doesn't matter. User experience does, and that is still very much an unknown.

tobiasbischoff 14y ago

let's compare again. when they shipped.

Mvandenbergh 14y ago

Their idea of the "Best Web Browser" is passing a standards compliance test with top marks?

SwellJoe 14y ago
That's a big part of my idea of a good web browser, as well.
- aes256 14y ago
  Alas, you are not the average person.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    What's a "great" browser for the average person, then? One that can't run good web apps properly?
    - SquareWheel 14y ago
      I would agree on passing standard compliance, but a great browser should allow fluid swipes, many tabs, syncing between phones or devices, and render things accurately and quickly. The look of the chrome is just as important as the look of the page, and the feel of navigation is the most important of all.
- Steko 14y ago
  The big problem here is that the browser test was developed by Facebook so it probably only passes the test if all kinds of creepy tracking features are ON.

hemancuso 14y ago

Predictably there are a lot of haters on the thread, but can't we look at this as a good thing? A great browser won't be anywhere near enough to win, but a crappy browser is game over. I, for one, would like more competing platforms rather than fewer.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
aes256 14y ago
BlackBerry aren't even in the competition anymore. It's over for them.
- whatshisface 14y ago
  I would buy one, and so would pretty much any company. A vibrant developer community is a big minus for big companies with no need for custom software, because that means there will be people figuring out how to root the devices (and worms, ect). If blackberry fails in the consumer market, the commercial market will save it. As for the consumer market, who doesn't love seeing new ways to do things? Andriod and Iphone are old and boring now, and Windows Phone 8 is not my cup of tea. (Oh, just remembered firefox OS. Is that a thing still?)
  - AlexDanger 14y ago
    > If blackberry fails in the consumer market, the commercial market will save it. Why? Blackberry's grip on the corporate market was destroyed by execs coming to work with their iPhones and demanding that IT depts connect them to the corporate infrastructure. Remember, IT works for the business - not the other way around.
    - ghshephard 14y ago
      True in most cases - but, in some organizations, IT has ludicrous amounts of policy power that surpass what any rational person would think should be allocated to it. In particular, Yahoo!'s IT organization kept Blackberry's as the Mobile Platform of choice, for a company whose major future growth is going to come from Mobile Consumer usage - far longer than it ever should have. Eventually, though, somebody gets around to knocking heads, and IT typically falls in line...

timmclean 14y ago

Even better than Firefox OS?

benwerd 14y ago

Great! That means I can write my application for the web and I don't have to worry about directly addressing the BlackBerry platform.

azakai 14y ago
Yes, that's true. I assume you meant that sarcastically, as in "look how BlackBerry are killing off developer interest in their own platform"? Regardless of sarcasm or not, this is the best play RIM has - to use an existing platform and not rely on people developing specifically for them. That's the only hope for the underdog platforms (i.e., everyone except for Android and iOS).

leoh 14y ago

This is ridiculous. Let's look at the iPhone for example. There are several browsers available, all which are highly compliant. I use Chrome, however, not because of its compliance, but because at the moment, it's the fastest, allows for more tabs, and just feels more fun to use. Blackberry will lose this game because they don't know how to do good UI. And this nonsense about working with Facebook is just laughable.

joenathan 14y ago
There is only one browser available for the iPhone and several different "skins" for that browser.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
In case joenathan's comment isn't obvious, all iOS apps use the same core WebKit library to provide for their "browser" experiences. It's an embedded UIWebView I believe. All "browsers" have to use this because Apple. [1] [1] That's not fair, it's a JIT thing but then again you can have full other engines on Android if you like (see: Chrome for Android).

se85 14y ago

I sure hope they didn't use Facebook's HTML5 expertise in building the BB10.

randomfool 14y ago

I've had a number of my WebKit bugs fixed by folks at RIM recently (hopefully not because they caused them!). Thrilled that they're contributing. I really hope their work lasts much longer than RIM.

rileyt 14y ago

As much as I would love to stop even pretending to care about dealing with blackberry's brutal web browser, I still think that this title is way to bold and extremely unlikely...

nnq 14y ago

...the only thing that could motivate me nowadays to write a BB version of a mobile app would be the ability to use HTML5 and javascript and just have the same app on both Android and BB... so if the browser is better than what 90% of Android users have, I wouldn't care, because I'd be targeting the Android webkit browser... Android won, so they should first strive for compatibility first (and HTML5 apps seems the only way for them) and then show off any superior features their OS may have on top of this... ...it seems that they are running through the woods without a map (AGAIN!) right now, and it really doesn't matter how fast they can run or climb trees if they don't know where they're going [EDIT: added what's next] my 2 cents for RIM: throw some money at Xamarin (http://xamarin.com http://xamarin.com) to make BB a target for their app development platform... putting your eggs in the multiplatform basket would seem like the only sensible decision now that your basket is hosed / on fire, and enterprise devs that would be more inclined to target BB will probably prefer C#...