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I will never understand people like GitHub user “shushtain” in the linked issue. So obviously the guy is behaving like an entitled jerk, but it’s also surely c

by sevg 6mo ago

I will never understand people like GitHub user “shushtain” in the linked issue. So obviously the guy is behaving like an entitled jerk, but it’s also surely counter-productive (volunteer maintainers are unlikely to respond well to plain rudeness)? Unless the goal isn’t a productive outcome, but just to be mean?

correspondent 6mo ago
[dead]
cafebabbe 6mo ago
Humans are notoriously bad at game theory.
delusional 6mo ago
> Unless the goal isn’t a productive outcome, but just to be mean? Some people are just mean. They spend their angry little lives walking around "outraged" by any minor inconvenience. They assume every single little happenstance was designed to make them miserable. The greatest thing about having a good education and working with other experts is that I generally don't meet this people that much, but I remember them all too well.
- rolandog 6mo ago
  Agreed. However, I often wonder if people like that are deliberately (or inadvertently) being a psyop seeking to burn out people ala how "Jia Tan" tried to become maintainer of xz [0]. [0] https://youtu.be/aoag03mSuXQ?t=597 https://youtu.be/aoag03mSuXQ?t=597
- faangguyindia 6mo ago
  Being rude is not effortless, it requires someone spending significant amount of energy on you And most people who wronged me were never really rude to me. So i don't even use someone's rudeness as filter for anything.
faangguyindia 6mo ago
I've built many successful services by listening to entitled users so much that I used to talk with such entitled users all day. They are just passionate and most of the times annoyed because something as simple is not being done right.
- sevg 6mo ago
  > They are just passionate and most of the times annoyed because something as simple is not being done right. No, this is not adequate justification for such behavior towards volunteer FOSS maintainers.
  - thayne 6mo ago
    It isn't justification for being rude. But just because someone is being rude doesn't mean what they are complaining about isn't an issue.
- elliotec 6mo ago
  What successful services have you built because of entitled users?
- siva7 6mo ago
  I don't think you've done any of that - at least not for a successful open source project. The topic here is about open source volunteers and not your day job.
  - faangguyindia 6mo ago
    I built businesses not opensource projects. Though many of my projects are completely free for the users. Latest being this one already past 1000+ active users https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.macrocodex.app&pcampaignid=web_share https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.macrocodex... If you don't listen to your passionate users, i doubt you'll ever grow. Someone being rude/entitled doesn't matter to me, I only care about if what they are saying actually makes any sense
eviks 6mo ago
Easiest people to understand: someone hurt you (in this case disrupted your workflow, especially if pointlessly like this user thinks), you express the dissatisfaction to the person who did.
- locknitpicker 6mo ago
  > Easiest people to understand: someone hurt you (in this case disrupted your workflow, especially if pointlessly like this user thinks), you express the dissatisfaction to the person who did. Are you aware you are talking about a FLOSS project that was gifted to you, and you are advocating for attacking for abusing the creator of said project because you can't even bother to contribute anything back?
zysko-vendy 6mo ago
not really an excuse, but guy's from Kharkiv, Ukraine - a city that is almost daily getting bombed by russia, maybe he just had a bad day?
- mongrelion 6mo ago
  Having a bad day does not entitle you to take it out on others
  - zysko-vendy 6mo ago
    that's why i said it's not really an excuse?
  - perching_aix 6mo ago
    Empathy goes both ways. You can recognize them being unfair while still appreciating their reasons for being unfair. People seem to have this notion that there's some theoretical possible world where everything is completely moral, and we're just failing to get there. But that is not true. You get locally moral and globally moral arrangements, and they're not necessarily going to mesh. It's just like any other large system. Guy can be justified from their perspective, people can be justified for distancing themselves from him. That's life. Having a reason for something is further the bare minimum, not the endgame.
szmarczak 6mo ago
He's just incompetent: 1. He blames the maintainer that his distro doesn't ship latest neovim. 2. He didn't pull neovim from the Extra-Testing Arch branch. 3. He didn't pull neovim from AUR. 4. He doesn't have the knowledge to build from source. 5. He didn't pull the tarball from git. 6. He didn't pull the AppImage from git. There's so many solutions to choose from and he chose none; pure ragebait.
- mongrelion 6mo ago
  You should totally post this on the original thread just for adjustment :-)
  - thayne 6mo ago
    The project is archived, you can't.
xboxnolifes 6mo ago
You see, humans are emotional beings, not rational beings. Surely you've seen examples of that basically everywhere there is human interactions.
Ferret7446 6mo ago
Think of the average person, in terms of communication skills, education, critical thinking, emotional regulation, etc. Now realize that half the population is below that. If you're in a social bubble, which is hard to avoid nowadays, I recommend watching police body cam videos to help recalibrate where the ends of the spectrum are. It's also given me sympathy for police in general

by sevg 6mo ago

correspondent 6mo ago

[dead]

cafebabbe 6mo ago

Humans are notoriously bad at game theory.

delusional 6mo ago

> Unless the goal isn’t a productive outcome, but just to be mean? Some people are just mean. They spend their angry little lives walking around "outraged" by any minor inconvenience. They assume every single little happenstance was designed to make them miserable. The greatest thing about having a good education and working with other experts is that I generally don't meet this people that much, but I remember them all too well.

rolandog 6mo ago
Agreed. However, I often wonder if people like that are deliberately (or inadvertently) being a psyop seeking to burn out people ala how "Jia Tan" tried to become maintainer of xz [0]. [0] https://youtu.be/aoag03mSuXQ?t=597 https://youtu.be/aoag03mSuXQ?t=597
faangguyindia 6mo ago
Being rude is not effortless, it requires someone spending significant amount of energy on you And most people who wronged me were never really rude to me. So i don't even use someone's rudeness as filter for anything.

faangguyindia 6mo ago

I've built many successful services by listening to entitled users so much that I used to talk with such entitled users all day. They are just passionate and most of the times annoyed because something as simple is not being done right.

sevg 6mo ago
> They are just passionate and most of the times annoyed because something as simple is not being done right. No, this is not adequate justification for such behavior towards volunteer FOSS maintainers.
- thayne 6mo ago
  It isn't justification for being rude. But just because someone is being rude doesn't mean what they are complaining about isn't an issue.
elliotec 6mo ago
What successful services have you built because of entitled users?
siva7 6mo ago
I don't think you've done any of that - at least not for a successful open source project. The topic here is about open source volunteers and not your day job.
- faangguyindia 6mo ago
  I built businesses not opensource projects. Though many of my projects are completely free for the users. Latest being this one already past 1000+ active users https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.macrocodex.app&pcampaignid=web_share https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.macrocodex... If you don't listen to your passionate users, i doubt you'll ever grow. Someone being rude/entitled doesn't matter to me, I only care about if what they are saying actually makes any sense

eviks 6mo ago

Easiest people to understand: someone hurt you (in this case disrupted your workflow, especially if pointlessly like this user thinks), you express the dissatisfaction to the person who did.

locknitpicker 6mo ago
> Easiest people to understand: someone hurt you (in this case disrupted your workflow, especially if pointlessly like this user thinks), you express the dissatisfaction to the person who did. Are you aware you are talking about a FLOSS project that was gifted to you, and you are advocating for attacking for abusing the creator of said project because you can't even bother to contribute anything back?

zysko-vendy 6mo ago

not really an excuse, but guy's from Kharkiv, Ukraine - a city that is almost daily getting bombed by russia, maybe he just had a bad day?

mongrelion 6mo ago
Having a bad day does not entitle you to take it out on others
- zysko-vendy 6mo ago
  that's why i said it's not really an excuse?
- perching_aix 6mo ago
  Empathy goes both ways. You can recognize them being unfair while still appreciating their reasons for being unfair. People seem to have this notion that there's some theoretical possible world where everything is completely moral, and we're just failing to get there. But that is not true. You get locally moral and globally moral arrangements, and they're not necessarily going to mesh. It's just like any other large system. Guy can be justified from their perspective, people can be justified for distancing themselves from him. That's life. Having a reason for something is further the bare minimum, not the endgame.

szmarczak 6mo ago

He's just incompetent: 1. He blames the maintainer that his distro doesn't ship latest neovim. 2. He didn't pull neovim from the Extra-Testing Arch branch. 3. He didn't pull neovim from AUR. 4. He doesn't have the knowledge to build from source. 5. He didn't pull the tarball from git. 6. He didn't pull the AppImage from git. There's so many solutions to choose from and he chose none; pure ragebait.

mongrelion 6mo ago
You should totally post this on the original thread just for adjustment :-)
- thayne 6mo ago
  The project is archived, you can't.

xboxnolifes 6mo ago

You see, humans are emotional beings, not rational beings. Surely you've seen examples of that basically everywhere there is human interactions.

Ferret7446 6mo ago

Think of the average person, in terms of communication skills, education, critical thinking, emotional regulation, etc. Now realize that half the population is below that. If you're in a social bubble, which is hard to avoid nowadays, I recommend watching police body cam videos to help recalibrate where the ends of the spectrum are. It's also given me sympathy for police in general