5 ms·

Brain scans reveal how to enters a psychedelic-like trance without drugs

80 points by ingenika 6mo ago

ingenika 6mo ago
A neuroimaging study investigated the brain activity of an individual capable of voluntarily entering a transcendental visionary state—a rare, non-ordinary state of consciousness. The researchers found that the participant’s brain connectivity fundamentally reorganized during this state: her visual and somatosensory connections decreased, while connectivity in the frontoparietal control regions of the brain increased. The paper was published in NeuroImage.
- BloodyIron 6mo ago
  I... I think I might be able to do that too..
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
dtj1123 6mo ago
That it's possible is fascinating, but what I really want to know is how it's done.
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  I don't think it is quite similar, but Yoga Nidra can make you feel very good and is gentler than some other practices.
- hello_humans 6mo ago
  Reaching higher jhanas in meditation practices like Vipassana
- danard 6mo ago
  Not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but I too am able to get into this "visual state". I have started meditating a couple of years ago to better connect to my emotions and manage my ADHD and at one point I started seeing some colors (mostly yellow and green) and then a couple of months later it even became full-blown lucid states where I knew I am consciously awake, yet at the same time could view imagery and symbols that were deeply personal and helped me cathartically understand many things about myself. But to your question - I have a recipe that works for myself, and I am curious if it will work for you too: - ANC Headphones + listen to things like (Music for Psychdelic Therapy by Jon Hopkins) - Ideally lay flat on a bed/ground, in a position where you can entirely relax all your muscles - Cover eyes with a dark T-shirt or a pillow so that NO light gets in - if you have trouble with nose breathing like me, use Nose strips (that helps for me) And now the more challenging part, what happens in my head: - consciously relax all of the muscles in the body, if I have some kind of pain somewhere, try to not think about it - just as meditation goes, try to not think about anything, focusing on the music like I mentioned above helps. If some thought occurs, some emotion comes, really just observe it and let it pass. This is of course easier said than done, but I think it's very important to learn to not be always reactive - to intensify the focus and for me, this is how the colors start (later becoming symbols), try to not even move your eyes while closed. Imagine looking as if on some object that is as close as 5 inches away from your face and don't move the eyes until you reach the "colors" stage As for me, I start seeing colors and shapes around 10-20 minutes into this. But I am pretty confident that in the beginning before I realized this was happening, it took even longer. I don't know if this will work for you, but I will be happy to answer any questions :)
  - mna_ 6mo ago
    I did this as a teen but I wasn't trying to meditate. I just wanted to listen to my favourite albums without any distractions. Anyway, I'd almost always fall asleep. How do you stay awake?
    - danard 6mo ago
      I guess coffee helps. But yes, the line is thin, I also often feel like sleeping. It's much easier to enter this state while well-rested, i.e. in the morning or afternoon, not before bed. But I think what psychologically helps is also doing this not in bed, if possible, because we have bed mostly associated with sleep. But yes, it certainly requires some focus on not allowing oneself to sleep.
- smackeyacky 6mo ago
  I don’t know whether it’s related to training yourself how to lucid dream, but once you can you may regret it as dreams stop working in the old way once you do. So be aware of that possibility before you go down that path.
  - dtj1123 6mo ago
    I'm sensing an interesting story. Care to elaborate?
    - boomskats 6mo ago
      _"Pinkerton, you explain the logic and I'll provide the background."_
      - dtj1123 6mo ago
        Sorry, what?
    - smackeyacky 6mo ago
      https://tim.blog/2009/09/21/how-to-lucid-dream/ https://tim.blog/2009/09/21/how-to-lucid-dream/ I roughly followed these sorts of techniques after a period of having terrifying dreams related to stress. It worked. I can recognise dreams and control the outcomes to a very large degree. The downside is that while that’s great for terrifying dreams it’s not so good for interesting ones. To lucid dream is to stop being able to let go completely. I’m ambivalent about it now.
      - dtj1123 6mo ago
        That's really surprising to me, thankyou for replying
- rramadass 6mo ago
  1) Analytical approach from the Yoga Sutras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali) - Pratyahara (withdrawal of the mind from the senses), Dharana (concentration/focus), Dhyana (meditation), Samadhi (absorption). The key is the last three which are practiced together on some chosen object and is named Samyama. 2) Experiential approach through any activity (eg. Bhakti/Tantra/Hatha etc.) also called Laya Yoga (i.e. yoga of dissolution) where one "dissolves" one's identity (i.e. no experiencer nor object of experience) so only the pure experience remains. See the sections on Laya at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_yoga 3) Book of Techniques; Vijñāna Bhairava Tantra - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tantra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tan... 4) For a simple method to get started and more details, see my comment chain here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41537499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41537499
  - dtj1123 6mo ago
    Are you completely confident that this is the same phenomenon that the women in the study is experiencing though?
    - rramadass 6mo ago
      Yes; The woman's experience is a subset from a spectrum. There are a spectrum of "Consciousness States" which can be partitioned into two categories viz. 1) the three well-known ones i.e. Wakeful, Dreaming and Deep Sleep 2) All the others whether self-induced or externally-induced viz. chemically (eg. drugs/anesthesia), electromagnetically etc. The model to use as a framework is that of "Raising the Kundalini" (from Muladhara chakra to Sahasrara chakra) which you can assume for now to be an allegory for moving through a trajectory of consciousness states from "normal" to "supra-normal" (can only be experienced and cannot be precisely defined). The major "stages" in this path are at the Chakras which are precisely defined with geometrical patterns, visual imagery, internal sensations similar to vibrations produced by different sounds; viz. specific coloured luminous figures (aka deities), polygons with different 3/4/5/6/etc sides (aka lotuses with different no. of petals), sound vibrations mapped to syllables in the Sanskrit language etc. The experience(s) of the woman described in the article (assuming it is legit) checks many of the above viz. "She described experiencing vivid internal imagery, alteration of her body schema, changes in agency, and a deep sense of unity", "it begins with intricate geometric and luminous imagery and culminates in a lucid, expansive state of unity and serenity", "she reported the emergence of a violet coloration replacing her dark visual field, followed by the gradual appearance of a yellow-violet hexagonal lattice that she perceived as a structured pattern floating “in the air” around her", "The hexagonal network coupled with rhythmic violet pulses remained the most stable phenomenological motif across all 20 sessions." My only scepticism is that the article reads "a little too pat" (i have yet to read the original paper) and makes everything seem a "done deal" (i.e. known) in a domain where inherently there can be no objectivity. For example; while the brain imaging shows a specific set of activities (i.e. objective) their correlation to a specific description is based solely on the woman's self-reporting (i.e. subjective).
- ratg13 6mo ago
  If you are interested in learning more, check out the David Lynch foundation (Yes, that David Lynch) There is also tm.org which is a worldwide organization offering courses in most countries.
maksimur 6mo ago
I have learned to do this quite late in my life and by accident, to relieve acute physical pain.
G_o_D 6mo ago
To be frank, i had been doing this from my childhood, up until extreme Now i lost all abilities and developed severe ocd adhd. Not sure its same context, but i had been using visual imagery to memorize full books 100s of pages alphabet by alphabet not one punctuation here and there. Initially it was very strong imaginery capabilities that i later during my academic years put use to it for memorising purpose. To explain consider i was like taking photos through my eyes, whole books as has been scanned within my brain. And i could recall them in an instant, ask any question from anywhere within book and i instantly generate answers in my brain with such speed that my hands could not cope up writing it down without compromising on handwriting. But now for last 7 years i lost all those in an instant now i could'nt remember a sentence after hour unless i keep repeating or write it down.
iammjm 6mo ago
Not a single sentence as to how she is doing that? I am not doubting her,I would just like to know
- rramadass 6mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47648006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47648006
raincom 6mo ago
Original paper "The neurophenomenology of a self-induced transcendental visionary state: A case study" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811926001023 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S105381192...

80 points by ingenika 6mo ago

A neuroimaging study investigated the brain activity of an individual capable of voluntarily entering a transcendental visionary state—a rare, non-ordinary state of consciousness. The researchers found that the participant’s brain connectivity fundamentally reorganized during this state: her visual and somatosensory connections decreased, while connectivity in the frontoparietal control regions of the brain increased. The paper was published in NeuroImage.

BloodyIron 6mo ago
I... I think I might be able to do that too..

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

dtj1123 6mo ago

That it's possible is fascinating, but what I really want to know is how it's done.

Cider9986 6mo ago
I don't think it is quite similar, but Yoga Nidra can make you feel very good and is gentler than some other practices.
hello_humans 6mo ago
Reaching higher jhanas in meditation practices like Vipassana
danard 6mo ago
Not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but I too am able to get into this "visual state". I have started meditating a couple of years ago to better connect to my emotions and manage my ADHD and at one point I started seeing some colors (mostly yellow and green) and then a couple of months later it even became full-blown lucid states where I knew I am consciously awake, yet at the same time could view imagery and symbols that were deeply personal and helped me cathartically understand many things about myself. But to your question - I have a recipe that works for myself, and I am curious if it will work for you too: - ANC Headphones + listen to things like (Music for Psychdelic Therapy by Jon Hopkins) - Ideally lay flat on a bed/ground, in a position where you can entirely relax all your muscles - Cover eyes with a dark T-shirt or a pillow so that NO light gets in - if you have trouble with nose breathing like me, use Nose strips (that helps for me) And now the more challenging part, what happens in my head: - consciously relax all of the muscles in the body, if I have some kind of pain somewhere, try to not think about it - just as meditation goes, try to not think about anything, focusing on the music like I mentioned above helps. If some thought occurs, some emotion comes, really just observe it and let it pass. This is of course easier said than done, but I think it's very important to learn to not be always reactive - to intensify the focus and for me, this is how the colors start (later becoming symbols), try to not even move your eyes while closed. Imagine looking as if on some object that is as close as 5 inches away from your face and don't move the eyes until you reach the "colors" stage As for me, I start seeing colors and shapes around 10-20 minutes into this. But I am pretty confident that in the beginning before I realized this was happening, it took even longer. I don't know if this will work for you, but I will be happy to answer any questions :)
- mna_ 6mo ago
  I did this as a teen but I wasn't trying to meditate. I just wanted to listen to my favourite albums without any distractions. Anyway, I'd almost always fall asleep. How do you stay awake?
  - danard 6mo ago
    I guess coffee helps. But yes, the line is thin, I also often feel like sleeping. It's much easier to enter this state while well-rested, i.e. in the morning or afternoon, not before bed. But I think what psychologically helps is also doing this not in bed, if possible, because we have bed mostly associated with sleep. But yes, it certainly requires some focus on not allowing oneself to sleep.
smackeyacky 6mo ago
I don’t know whether it’s related to training yourself how to lucid dream, but once you can you may regret it as dreams stop working in the old way once you do. So be aware of that possibility before you go down that path.
- dtj1123 6mo ago
  I'm sensing an interesting story. Care to elaborate?
  - boomskats 6mo ago
    _"Pinkerton, you explain the logic and I'll provide the background."_
    - dtj1123 6mo ago
      Sorry, what?
  - smackeyacky 6mo ago
    https://tim.blog/2009/09/21/how-to-lucid-dream/ https://tim.blog/2009/09/21/how-to-lucid-dream/ I roughly followed these sorts of techniques after a period of having terrifying dreams related to stress. It worked. I can recognise dreams and control the outcomes to a very large degree. The downside is that while that’s great for terrifying dreams it’s not so good for interesting ones. To lucid dream is to stop being able to let go completely. I’m ambivalent about it now.
    - dtj1123 6mo ago
      That's really surprising to me, thankyou for replying
rramadass 6mo ago
1) Analytical approach from the Yoga Sutras (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali) - Pratyahara (withdrawal of the mind from the senses), Dharana (concentration/focus), Dhyana (meditation), Samadhi (absorption). The key is the last three which are practiced together on some chosen object and is named Samyama. 2) Experiential approach through any activity (eg. Bhakti/Tantra/Hatha etc.) also called Laya Yoga (i.e. yoga of dissolution) where one "dissolves" one's identity (i.e. no experiencer nor object of experience) so only the pure experience remains. See the sections on Laya at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_yoga and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatha_yoga 3) Book of Techniques; Vijñāna Bhairava Tantra - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tantra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vij%C3%B1%C4%81na_Bhairava_Tan... 4) For a simple method to get started and more details, see my comment chain here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41537499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41537499
- dtj1123 6mo ago
  Are you completely confident that this is the same phenomenon that the women in the study is experiencing though?
  - rramadass 6mo ago
    Yes; The woman's experience is a subset from a spectrum. There are a spectrum of "Consciousness States" which can be partitioned into two categories viz. 1) the three well-known ones i.e. Wakeful, Dreaming and Deep Sleep 2) All the others whether self-induced or externally-induced viz. chemically (eg. drugs/anesthesia), electromagnetically etc. The model to use as a framework is that of "Raising the Kundalini" (from Muladhara chakra to Sahasrara chakra) which you can assume for now to be an allegory for moving through a trajectory of consciousness states from "normal" to "supra-normal" (can only be experienced and cannot be precisely defined). The major "stages" in this path are at the Chakras which are precisely defined with geometrical patterns, visual imagery, internal sensations similar to vibrations produced by different sounds; viz. specific coloured luminous figures (aka deities), polygons with different 3/4/5/6/etc sides (aka lotuses with different no. of petals), sound vibrations mapped to syllables in the Sanskrit language etc. The experience(s) of the woman described in the article (assuming it is legit) checks many of the above viz. "She described experiencing vivid internal imagery, alteration of her body schema, changes in agency, and a deep sense of unity", "it begins with intricate geometric and luminous imagery and culminates in a lucid, expansive state of unity and serenity", "she reported the emergence of a violet coloration replacing her dark visual field, followed by the gradual appearance of a yellow-violet hexagonal lattice that she perceived as a structured pattern floating “in the air” around her", "The hexagonal network coupled with rhythmic violet pulses remained the most stable phenomenological motif across all 20 sessions." My only scepticism is that the article reads "a little too pat" (i have yet to read the original paper) and makes everything seem a "done deal" (i.e. known) in a domain where inherently there can be no objectivity. For example; while the brain imaging shows a specific set of activities (i.e. objective) their correlation to a specific description is based solely on the woman's self-reporting (i.e. subjective).
ratg13 6mo ago
If you are interested in learning more, check out the David Lynch foundation (Yes, that David Lynch) There is also tm.org which is a worldwide organization offering courses in most countries.

maksimur 6mo ago

I have learned to do this quite late in my life and by accident, to relieve acute physical pain.

G_o_D 6mo ago

To be frank, i had been doing this from my childhood, up until extreme Now i lost all abilities and developed severe ocd adhd. Not sure its same context, but i had been using visual imagery to memorize full books 100s of pages alphabet by alphabet not one punctuation here and there. Initially it was very strong imaginery capabilities that i later during my academic years put use to it for memorising purpose. To explain consider i was like taking photos through my eyes, whole books as has been scanned within my brain. And i could recall them in an instant, ask any question from anywhere within book and i instantly generate answers in my brain with such speed that my hands could not cope up writing it down without compromising on handwriting. But now for last 7 years i lost all those in an instant now i could'nt remember a sentence after hour unless i keep repeating or write it down.

iammjm 6mo ago

Not a single sentence as to how she is doing that? I am not doubting her,I would just like to know

rramadass 6mo ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47648006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47648006

raincom 6mo ago

Original paper "The neurophenomenology of a self-induced transcendental visionary state: A case study" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053811926001023 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S105381192...