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“ Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.” - Universal Declaration of Human Rights https://www.ohchr.org
by bilsbie 7mo ago
“ Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.”
- Universal Declaration of Human Rights
https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/translations/english https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/...
- qayxc 7mo agoAnd this regulation violates this how exactly?
- Lucasoato 7mo agoBecause if you need a written confirmation that may conditionally not be given, you don’t actually have the right.
- qayxc 7mo agoFirst of all you don't need it. Secondly, the regulation even states that the right is granted automatically anyway. Technically, the rule had been in place for the past 45+ years anyway - even when there was mandatory military service! - so it doesn't make any practical difference.
- rustyhancock 7mo agoThen they should remove the law this weekend. Apparently it is bureaucracy without purpose after all?
- 1over137 7mo agoIt has a purpose: to be ready when/if needed.
- qayxc 7mo ago> Apparently it is bureaucracy without purpose after all? No it's not without purpose at all. The purpose is to know who could be drafted in a timely manner should the need arise. There's currently 2 major wars - sorry "special military operations" - happening, one of which in Europe. A certain government involved in one of these simultaneously calls for allies to assist while at the same time openly questioning half a century of military alliances. So maybe this helps to understand why regulations like this make sense - even for people who never lived through a time when there was mandatory military service and take their own security for granted.
- samus 7mo agoAt the moment, the law has no teeth since they cannot stop anyone from just leaving without return ticket, and nothing happens when you return. Of course it would be very easy to change that, and that's the reason why it exists.
- roshin 7mo agoUkraine has been violating that for young men since the start of its war.
- lpcvoid 7mo agoAnd russia has been violating this too, along with other much worse things, as usual.
- throw-the-towel 7mo agoFactually untrue, Russian men can and do leave the country. Also, nice whataboutism bro.
- yolo3000 7mo agoHow about Russians from abroad, do they often go back to Russia?
- throw-the-towel 7mo agoThe men I know try not to go unless it's absolutely necessary. The women generally prance to Russia and back all the time. (Exceptions exist, of course.)
- lpcvoid 7mo agoYou started with bringing Ukraine up under an article about Germany, so how is your comment any less a whataboutism than mine?
- throw-the-towel 7mo agoThat was a different user and not me, but fair point.
- cedws 7mo agoHard to feel the same sympathy for Russian men to be honest, I've seen many gallivanting abroad, whilst majority of Ukrainian men are stuck either in hiding in their own country or have been sent to the front lines. Only a few got out early or by paying bribes.
- Izikiel43 7mo agoYeah, those are just pretty words without the power to enforce them, like everything else the UN does
- randomNumber7 7mo agoEvery law is just words unless there is a power that can enforce it.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo agoBut the UN DHR doesn’t seem to have been written as law. It was written as a declaration, in line with our own Declaration of Independence. It lists our ideals that need to be spelled into law. That lets it be airy and vague in a way laws cannot.
- randomNumber7 7mo agoHow does this relate to my comment?
- JumpCrisscross 7mo agoIt isn’t “every law.” It’s not written to be directly operationalised. You’re comparing a declaration of values to operational law; they’re words in different ways and contexts.
- randomNumber7 7mo agoIs a "declaration of values" more than words if there is no power that is willing to enforce it?
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago> Is a "declaration of values" more than words if there is no power that is willing to enforce it? Yes. Nobody directly enforces the policy papers or the Declaration of Independence. That doesn’t mean they don’t have corporeal value. In part, due to being translated into laws.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- layer8 7mo agoAnd "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the security of person." Military service also serves the purpose to defend that right when the country is attacked. Rights aren't absolute, they have to be traded off against each other.
- frodowtf2 7mo agoMilitary service in the west is not for defence. Irak, Iran, Syria, Vietnam...
- RandomLensman 7mo agoGermany participated how there?
- einpoklum 7mo agoGermany participated in the NATO military campaign/occupation of Afghanistan, including ground forces, naval activities and special operations units. Its seems a total of 150,000 German soldiers (and police officers?) were deployed overall (not at the same time of course); of them, 62 were killed and 249 wounded: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_casualties_in_Afghanistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_casualties... Germany was also directly involved in the NATO campaign against (former) Yugoslavia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia and finally, Germany hosts large contigents of US forces, including air forces likely involved in the current illegal war against Iran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_Air_Base https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_Air_Base
- RandomLensman 7mo agoIran, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam? Hosting US forces in Germany is participating?
- dudefeliciano 7mo ago
- fleroviumna 7mo ago[dead]
- chromacity 7mo agoIt's a meaningless, feel-good rule. Every country has countless carve-outs. To give you a trivial example: in the US, you can't get a passport if you owe more than $2,500 in child support.
- Longhanks 7mo agoWhilst I agree, to be fair, a passport is usually only needed when entering a country, not leaving one, right? Under the cited rule, the US needs to allow you to leave, not help you in entering some other country.
- einpoklum 7mo agoI have yet to leave a country (well, a state technically) without having to show a passport - with the exception of the Schengen area.
- Longhanks 7mo agoI mean, really not trying to frame this in any way, but asylum seekers do it all the time.
- einpoklum 7mo agoOk, fair enough, but if I were German - I don't really think I would asylum anywhere on the basis of Germany maybe intending to conscript me in the future.
- grumbelbart 7mo agoI'm reasonably sure Russia would take you.
- einpoklum 7mo agoI rather doubt it, but - can you back that up by some examples at least?
- IncreasePosts 7mo agoJust because some people write some words doesn't mean they have any relevance to any society.
- croes 7mo ago[dead]