4 ms·

Have you considered whistleblowing?

by dmos62 6mo ago

jacquesm 6mo ago
Yes. But I'm not working at either company and I'm 99.9% sure that it would lead to absolutely nothing other than a lot of misery for myself. The NDA's I sign have some pretty stiff penalties attached. I was actually hoping to see my trust in the auditing company confirmed and I'm still more than a little bit annoyed that they did not respond in a more constructive way. My response however is a simple one: I used to steer (a lot of) business their way and I have stopped doing that.
- maxbond 6mo ago
  Wouldn't it require a huge leap of faith for them to admit the audit was improper in order to have that discussion? Who's to say you aren't recording?
  - jacquesm 6mo ago
    I've already established that it was improper. It's up to them to make the most of that knowledge and then to determine of this is a singleton or an example of a class that has more representation. In that sense it is free to them, I'm under absolutely no obligation to provide them with a service. But I'm willing to expend the time and effort required to get them to make the most of it. What I'm not going to do is to allow them to play the blame game or 'shoot the messenger'.
    - maxbond 6mo ago
      I didn't mean it as a criticism, I think giving them the opportunity to improve and refusing to offer a scapegoat were both standup things to do. I'm just wondering if they were ever in a position to take that opportunity.
      - jacquesm 6mo ago
        Hard to tell. But given that it was their legal department contacting me I think you know the answer to that one.
- madaxe_again 6mo ago
  Similar boat. Seen the same shenanigans being played with actors who really should know better - everything from military secrets to medical data, and absolutely YOLOing it with an audit mill. I have it on good authority that there are superuser credentials floating around for their production systems that they’ve lost track of. And no, I won’t whistleblow either, as it would mostly be me that would face repercussions, and I am unafraid to say that I am a coward. We choose the battles we fight, and I’d like to believe that ultimately, entropy will defeat them without me lifting a finger.
  - soc2fraud 6mo ago
    No NDA can prevent you from making protected communications about fraud, illegal activity, etc. If you have seen fraud that involves the military you can make an anonymous report to the DOD IG. If it involves medical data you can make an anonymous report to the HHS IG. Or, if you want to get rich off of it, there's another option. Happy to chat.
    - dmos62 6mo ago
      "Get rich off it" sounds shady as hell. What are you offering?
      - soc2fraud 6mo ago
        Federal Tort Claims Act if they defrauded the government. You get a cut of the recovery. Helps to find the right firm to file. Can’t really do pro se.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
woadwarrior01 6mo ago
I'd called out fraud (blatant lying in investor updates) at a VC backed startup where I was a technical co-founder, once. I emailed all the investors and presented all the evidence to them. They decided to not rock the boat and keep my charlatan co-founder. So, I left. Now, the company is slowly bleeding to death.
- buran77 6mo ago
  > Now, the company is slowly bleeding to death. There are thousands of companies where the shady practices are rewarded, the companies thrive and make money for the investors. So the investors are incentivized to reward this behavior just on the chance that they are rewarded back. Whistleblowing sinks those chances and the investors and VCs know it. It doesn' just take away the money, it even takes away the plausible deniability. They put a lot of effort to absolutely punish any whistleblower to discourage the rest. Anything for a dollar. and this is probably all you'll ever need to know about almost every VC out there. Beyond the witty "I'm rich so I'm smart" blog posts and tweets, they're very much just the "anything for a dollar" type of people.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- junofan 6mo ago
  To be fair, I’m not sure blatant lying in investor updates alone constitutes fraud. There needs to be harm (or the intent thereof) AFAIK. The other party needs to be using that information to make a decision. If you give me a dollar and then later I tell you I’m actually Beyonce, is that fraud? Or am I just a lying sonofabitch?
  - ikidd 6mo ago
    It's encouraging future investment on a false pretext. I'd say that's fraud.
  - brookst 6mo ago
    If I give you a dollar and you say it’s being spent wisely, Beyonce loves the product, you’re about to land Taylor Swift as pro bono public ambassador… yeah that’s fraud.

Have you considered whistleblowing?

by dmos62 6mo ago

Have you considered whistleblowing?

Yes. But I'm not working at either company and I'm 99.9% sure that it would lead to absolutely nothing other than a lot of misery for myself. The NDA's I sign have some pretty stiff penalties attached. I was actually hoping to see my trust in the auditing company confirmed and I'm still more than a little bit annoyed that they did not respond in a more constructive way. My response however is a simple one: I used to steer (a lot of) business their way and I have stopped doing that.

maxbond 6mo ago
Wouldn't it require a huge leap of faith for them to admit the audit was improper in order to have that discussion? Who's to say you aren't recording?
- jacquesm 6mo ago
  I've already established that it was improper. It's up to them to make the most of that knowledge and then to determine of this is a singleton or an example of a class that has more representation. In that sense it is free to them, I'm under absolutely no obligation to provide them with a service. But I'm willing to expend the time and effort required to get them to make the most of it. What I'm not going to do is to allow them to play the blame game or 'shoot the messenger'.
  - maxbond 6mo ago
    I didn't mean it as a criticism, I think giving them the opportunity to improve and refusing to offer a scapegoat were both standup things to do. I'm just wondering if they were ever in a position to take that opportunity.
    - jacquesm 6mo ago
      Hard to tell. But given that it was their legal department contacting me I think you know the answer to that one.
madaxe_again 6mo ago
Similar boat. Seen the same shenanigans being played with actors who really should know better - everything from military secrets to medical data, and absolutely YOLOing it with an audit mill. I have it on good authority that there are superuser credentials floating around for their production systems that they’ve lost track of. And no, I won’t whistleblow either, as it would mostly be me that would face repercussions, and I am unafraid to say that I am a coward. We choose the battles we fight, and I’d like to believe that ultimately, entropy will defeat them without me lifting a finger.
- soc2fraud 6mo ago
  No NDA can prevent you from making protected communications about fraud, illegal activity, etc. If you have seen fraud that involves the military you can make an anonymous report to the DOD IG. If it involves medical data you can make an anonymous report to the HHS IG. Or, if you want to get rich off of it, there's another option. Happy to chat.
  - dmos62 6mo ago
    "Get rich off it" sounds shady as hell. What are you offering?
    - soc2fraud 6mo ago
      Federal Tort Claims Act if they defrauded the government. You get a cut of the recovery. Helps to find the right firm to file. Can’t really do pro se.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]

woadwarrior01 6mo ago

I'd called out fraud (blatant lying in investor updates) at a VC backed startup where I was a technical co-founder, once. I emailed all the investors and presented all the evidence to them. They decided to not rock the boat and keep my charlatan co-founder. So, I left. Now, the company is slowly bleeding to death.

buran77 6mo ago
> Now, the company is slowly bleeding to death. There are thousands of companies where the shady practices are rewarded, the companies thrive and make money for the investors. So the investors are incentivized to reward this behavior just on the chance that they are rewarded back. Whistleblowing sinks those chances and the investors and VCs know it. It doesn' just take away the money, it even takes away the plausible deniability. They put a lot of effort to absolutely punish any whistleblower to discourage the rest. Anything for a dollar. and this is probably all you'll ever need to know about almost every VC out there. Beyond the witty "I'm rich so I'm smart" blog posts and tweets, they're very much just the "anything for a dollar" type of people.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
junofan 6mo ago
To be fair, I’m not sure blatant lying in investor updates alone constitutes fraud. There needs to be harm (or the intent thereof) AFAIK. The other party needs to be using that information to make a decision. If you give me a dollar and then later I tell you I’m actually Beyonce, is that fraud? Or am I just a lying sonofabitch?
- ikidd 6mo ago
  It's encouraging future investment on a false pretext. I'd say that's fraud.
- brookst 6mo ago
  If I give you a dollar and you say it’s being spent wisely, Beyonce loves the product, you’re about to land Taylor Swift as pro bono public ambassador… yeah that’s fraud.