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I thought it was to simply throw fascists into the sea. Simple Effective Affordable Ethical

by jeffbee 7mo ago

nine_k 7mo ago
"Why won't all good people rally together and kill all bad people?"
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo ago
  It’s so strange because obviously my people are the good ones and everyone knows that!
gruez 7mo ago
>Effective The problem with political violence is that the other side will do the same thing, and you end up with an IRA situation where the country descends into sectarian violence.
- ceejayoz 7mo ago
  The IRA situation had a slightly lower bodycount than the not-throwing-1930s-fascists-into-the-sea one, did it not?
  - gruez 7mo ago
    How many people died under the Bolsheviks, or the Communists in China?
    - tomrod 7mo ago
      More than one or two, if memory serves correct. How many people died under the totalitarian regimes that preceded them? These oppressive regimes did not start in a vacuum.
      - gruez 7mo ago
        >How many people died under the totalitarian regimes that preceded them? These oppressive regimes did not start in a vacuum. You're proving my point. Political violence just leads to a cycle of more political violence and/or totalitarianism. The Chinese Communists, if you recall, were violently put down by the Nationalists in the civil war. Starting political violence to stop the "fascists", just condemns your society to that fate. Not to mention that people who engage in political violence aren't exactly the most sane people. What makes you think they'll stop at "fascists"? The Bolsheviks eventually turned against the Kulaks, once their allies, and Mao launched the Cultural Revolution to consolidate power and push out rivals.
        salawat 7mo ago
        Violence is coming whether you like it or not. People are already struggling and food prices will only go up this year given the buffoonery with antagonizing Iran. If we're going to have violence either way, I sure know where I'd prefer it be directed. I leave it as an exercise to the student to make up their mind on where it should be. I'm sure the answers are Legion.
        tomrod 7mo ago
        > Violence is coming whether you like it or not. What? No, it isn't inevitable that the US descends into sectarian violence. What a silly notion. There remains more that unites us than divides us. If the US does descend into violence, the blame can be squarely assigned to the propagandists (typically but not uniformly supporting the right wing) for twisting reality and making people feel their lives are under constant attack. How many Baby Boomer and older Gen X relations in your life are afraid to go to the mall or fear an apartment building being built in their local neighborhood for perceived increases to crime rates (versus standard NIMBYism of higher traffic issues)? Anecdotally, the FOX and ONAN and NEWSMAX views in my world declare every summer will lead to a race war. None of the "mainstream" media views think twice about that before being threatened by the federal government. Strange.
        tomrod 7mo ago
  - pjc50 7mo ago
    The Troubles had a lower per capita body count than Detroit during the 80s. Part of their doctrine was "bomb with warning", usually to maximize property damage without random civilian casualties. (Still quite a bit of murder of informers, soldiers, lawyers, and a teenager who happened to be in the wrong car. As well as government snipers firing into a crowd, planting a bomb on a band, and so on)
- dragonwriter 7mo ago
  The problem with refraining from political violence where it is warranted is that the other side will do it anyway and you end up dead.
  - gruez 7mo ago
    >is that the other side will do it anyway and you end up dead. Preemptive first strike logic[1] aside. This logic doesn't work because political violence never gets out of hand so fast that an entire political movement can be wiped out. On the other hand by starting/advocating for political violence you're almost certainly going to get the descent into sectarian violence before you can wipe out all the "fascists". [1] Iran, anyone?
    - girvo 7mo ago
      > This logic doesn't work because political violence never gets out of hand so fast that an entire political movement can be wiped out Tell that to the German left during the rise of Nazism.
      - gruez 7mo ago
        That just leads to the second problem. Do you think a few car bombs would have stopped Nazis in their tracks? Or it would just create even more antipathy towards Jews?
        girvo 7mo ago
        The Nazis succeeded in wiping out their opposition through violence. Why is that you think that Nazis were able to, but the German left (in this hypothetical) would not have been able to do so in kind?
  - SV_BubbleTime 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - 7mo ago
- pjc50 7mo ago
  The IRA situation was really an unresolved conflict from much longer ago, either Irish independence or the Cromwell era. The US has a problem with right-wing political violence; it's a long way off having a Baader-Meinhof.
torginus 7mo ago
I'm sorry this the this kind of (far-left) political comment that usually starts the argument from 'basic human decency' and gets to calls for mass murder in the span of a sentece or two is as hilarious as it is sad :(. And unfortunately very common. I'm not sure what you think when posting this, but this wont endear people to your ideas. I'm sure there are communities where this is a standard stance that gets cheered, which I'm sure a lot of people would find quite concerning.

I thought it was to simply throw fascists into the sea. Simple Effective Affordable Ethical

by jeffbee 7mo ago

I thought it was to simply throw fascists into the sea. Simple Effective Affordable Ethical

nine_k 7mo ago

"Why won't all good people rally together and kill all bad people?"

SV_BubbleTime 7mo ago
It’s so strange because obviously my people are the good ones and everyone knows that!

gruez 7mo ago

>Effective The problem with political violence is that the other side will do the same thing, and you end up with an IRA situation where the country descends into sectarian violence.

ceejayoz 7mo ago
The IRA situation had a slightly lower bodycount than the not-throwing-1930s-fascists-into-the-sea one, did it not?
- gruez 7mo ago
  How many people died under the Bolsheviks, or the Communists in China?
  - tomrod 7mo ago
    More than one or two, if memory serves correct. How many people died under the totalitarian regimes that preceded them? These oppressive regimes did not start in a vacuum.
    - gruez 7mo ago
      >How many people died under the totalitarian regimes that preceded them? These oppressive regimes did not start in a vacuum. You're proving my point. Political violence just leads to a cycle of more political violence and/or totalitarianism. The Chinese Communists, if you recall, were violently put down by the Nationalists in the civil war. Starting political violence to stop the "fascists", just condemns your society to that fate. Not to mention that people who engage in political violence aren't exactly the most sane people. What makes you think they'll stop at "fascists"? The Bolsheviks eventually turned against the Kulaks, once their allies, and Mao launched the Cultural Revolution to consolidate power and push out rivals.
      - salawat 7mo ago
        Violence is coming whether you like it or not. People are already struggling and food prices will only go up this year given the buffoonery with antagonizing Iran. If we're going to have violence either way, I sure know where I'd prefer it be directed. I leave it as an exercise to the student to make up their mind on where it should be. I'm sure the answers are Legion.
        tomrod 7mo ago
        > Violence is coming whether you like it or not. What? No, it isn't inevitable that the US descends into sectarian violence. What a silly notion. There remains more that unites us than divides us. If the US does descend into violence, the blame can be squarely assigned to the propagandists (typically but not uniformly supporting the right wing) for twisting reality and making people feel their lives are under constant attack. How many Baby Boomer and older Gen X relations in your life are afraid to go to the mall or fear an apartment building being built in their local neighborhood for perceived increases to crime rates (versus standard NIMBYism of higher traffic issues)? Anecdotally, the FOX and ONAN and NEWSMAX views in my world declare every summer will lead to a race war. None of the "mainstream" media views think twice about that before being threatened by the federal government. Strange.
      - tomrod 7mo ago
- pjc50 7mo ago
  The Troubles had a lower per capita body count than Detroit during the 80s. Part of their doctrine was "bomb with warning", usually to maximize property damage without random civilian casualties. (Still quite a bit of murder of informers, soldiers, lawyers, and a teenager who happened to be in the wrong car. As well as government snipers firing into a crowd, planting a bomb on a band, and so on)
dragonwriter 7mo ago
The problem with refraining from political violence where it is warranted is that the other side will do it anyway and you end up dead.
- gruez 7mo ago
  >is that the other side will do it anyway and you end up dead. Preemptive first strike logic[1] aside. This logic doesn't work because political violence never gets out of hand so fast that an entire political movement can be wiped out. On the other hand by starting/advocating for political violence you're almost certainly going to get the descent into sectarian violence before you can wipe out all the "fascists". [1] Iran, anyone?
  - girvo 7mo ago
    > This logic doesn't work because political violence never gets out of hand so fast that an entire political movement can be wiped out Tell that to the German left during the rise of Nazism.
    - gruez 7mo ago
      That just leads to the second problem. Do you think a few car bombs would have stopped Nazis in their tracks? Or it would just create even more antipathy towards Jews?
      - girvo 7mo ago
        The Nazis succeeded in wiping out their opposition through violence. Why is that you think that Nazis were able to, but the German left (in this hypothetical) would not have been able to do so in kind?
- SV_BubbleTime 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - 7mo ago
pjc50 7mo ago
The IRA situation was really an unresolved conflict from much longer ago, either Irish independence or the Cromwell era. The US has a problem with right-wing political violence; it's a long way off having a Baader-Meinhof.

torginus 7mo ago

I'm sorry this the this kind of (far-left) political comment that usually starts the argument from 'basic human decency' and gets to calls for mass murder in the span of a sentece or two is as hilarious as it is sad :(. And unfortunately very common. I'm not sure what you think when posting this, but this wont endear people to your ideas. I'm sure there are communities where this is a standard stance that gets cheered, which I'm sure a lot of people would find quite concerning.