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I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the domestic labor exists, corporations would simply

I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the domestic labor exists, corporations would simply prefer "optimize their labor costs" and employ workers with reduced mobility via the H-1B. The data is clear from the salaries paid, which is public data. As I've commented previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 "I am calling for a temporary moratorium for issuing new worker visas based on the current economic macro and existing immigrant worker base in the US companies can pick from, yes. I support the current $100k H-1B fee, in perpetuity. The domestic workforce exists, it is a choice to not pick from the domestic labor pool. Choices have consequences." The US has an obligation to its citizens, not corporations, not immigrant labor (already on US soil, or desiring to be on US soil). Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. Again, we may disagree on this, but I think I can find a majority of Americans who do agree with this sentiment (considering the current macro and affordability crisis in the US).

Avicebron 7mo ago
> The US has an obligation to its citizens In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end up leaving seems borderline seditious.
- to11mtm 7mo ago
  I wouldn't call it seditious. It's actually exploitative, on both ends but one worse than the other. H1Bs wind up feeling forced to work far more hours than they should, but then it adds pressure to any in-house employees to work more than they should too. It's extra evident in the people that go from H1B to full citizenship, they often never learn to just take a break, sometimes to their own detriment.
  - Avicebron 7mo ago
    Overworking H1Bs isn't what people are concerned about (yes it's an issue and part of the problem because it's an extra incentive). Importing people to supplant the local talent who are more than capable of doing the work, widening the labor pool to weaken labor's power, claiming it's "meritocracy" and that everyone who doesn't agree is somehow racist or "illiberal" are the core issues.
    - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
      Nailed it.
raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
Just for reference, if you’re in tech and a senior even in a 2nd tier city, you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/
- toomuchtodo 7mo ago
  I have personally been in the room when illegal labor decisions were made around H-1B hiring and immigration law, which I reported to USCIS. But that doesn't scale unless you can get into more places where these decisions are made. So, when all you have is a hammer, you have to hit whatever is within reach of the target outcome. > you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K I am closer to a blue collar worker than a CEO or other very wealthy/empowered person driving these anti labor decisions, so your argument is not compelling, I know who these people are behind closed doors. It's always about some combination of wealth, profit, status, power, and/or control.
  - to11mtm 7mo ago
    I feel your pain. We'd rather be training in-house people to be better long term than training up people that get moved off the project as soon as they get upskilled...
  - raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    The median income earner is making around $65K. They don’t see you as one of them if you are making even six figures
    - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
      I do not need their approval to want better for them, or to advocate for or take action to achieve the same. How they see me is irrelevant. Humans are tricky.
      - 7mo ago
socialcommenter 7mo ago
> Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. "We fail to tax our corporations adequately, so the proceeds of rampant deregulation and profiteering don't benefit the general populace". I don't necessarily disagree with your stance but this seems like a weak justification (it's pragmatic, to be fair)
- toomuchtodo 7mo ago
  > it's pragmatic, to be fair Highest praise. This is what I optimize for in a dynamic, imperfect, and more often than not, unjust world. Move fast, break systems.

Avicebron 7mo ago

> The US has an obligation to its citizens In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end up leaving seems borderline seditious.

to11mtm 7mo ago
I wouldn't call it seditious. It's actually exploitative, on both ends but one worse than the other. H1Bs wind up feeling forced to work far more hours than they should, but then it adds pressure to any in-house employees to work more than they should too. It's extra evident in the people that go from H1B to full citizenship, they often never learn to just take a break, sometimes to their own detriment.
- Avicebron 7mo ago
  Overworking H1Bs isn't what people are concerned about (yes it's an issue and part of the problem because it's an extra incentive). Importing people to supplant the local talent who are more than capable of doing the work, widening the labor pool to weaken labor's power, claiming it's "meritocracy" and that everyone who doesn't agree is somehow racist or "illiberal" are the core issues.
  - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
    Nailed it.

raw_anon_1111 7mo ago

Just for reference, if you’re in tech and a senior even in a 2nd tier city, you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

toomuchtodo 7mo ago
I have personally been in the room when illegal labor decisions were made around H-1B hiring and immigration law, which I reported to USCIS. But that doesn't scale unless you can get into more places where these decisions are made. So, when all you have is a hammer, you have to hit whatever is within reach of the target outcome. > you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K I am closer to a blue collar worker than a CEO or other very wealthy/empowered person driving these anti labor decisions, so your argument is not compelling, I know who these people are behind closed doors. It's always about some combination of wealth, profit, status, power, and/or control.
- to11mtm 7mo ago
  I feel your pain. We'd rather be training in-house people to be better long term than training up people that get moved off the project as soon as they get upskilled...
- raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  The median income earner is making around $65K. They don’t see you as one of them if you are making even six figures
  - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
    I do not need their approval to want better for them, or to advocate for or take action to achieve the same. How they see me is irrelevant. Humans are tricky.
    - 7mo ago

socialcommenter 7mo ago

> Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. "We fail to tax our corporations adequately, so the proceeds of rampant deregulation and profiteering don't benefit the general populace". I don't necessarily disagree with your stance but this seems like a weak justification (it's pragmatic, to be fair)

toomuchtodo 7mo ago
> it's pragmatic, to be fair Highest praise. This is what I optimize for in a dynamic, imperfect, and more often than not, unjust world. Move fast, break systems.