4 ms·

It's always puzzled me that layoffs don't result in a temporary bar from using the H1B system like it does for filing PERMs with the DoL.

orochimaaru 7mo ago
The H1B has “speciality” categories. You can lay off in one “speciality” while hiring for others. It’s silly but that’s how it’s setup at the moment. I agree with you. The category list in H1B needs to be trimmed. So that companies have less wiggle room for things like this. The layoffs were also worldwide. Not sure what the impact to US workers was. India was hit hard.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
PearlRiver 7mo ago
The US only has two political parties and they are both, secretly, pro immigration. The EU is actually clamping down on it because of populist/far right parties. I know someone who runs a Thai restaurant and he cannot fly in a cook from Asia. He has to find someone from Europe.
- junofan 7mo ago
  To be fair the US is pro-immigration and that’s no secret. H1-B is a guest worker visa. Those jobs could equally go to immigrants.
  - hash872 7mo ago
    No, H1-B is a dual intent visa- working and a path to a Green Card. It's always been that way
    - pandaman 7mo ago
      What doe "dual intent" mean and can you show me any government statement confirming that it's a path to a Green Card?
      - hash872 7mo ago
        It seems like you already understand what dual intent means- it's both a temporary working visa and a path to a Green Card. Yes, the government issues I-140s to H1-Bs, which are another step on the path to a GC. The government has an entire series of steps laid out for H1-B visa holders to follow to get a Green Card. I think just Googling 'H1-B dual intent' is going to give you more info than I could realistically fit in a comment here
        pandaman 7mo ago
        > it's both a temporary working visa and a path to a Green Card. It's not though. It's a DoS policy wrt of issuing non-immigrant visas. >Yes, the government issues I-140s to H1-Bs So? The government issues I-140s to non-H1Bs too. Not having any US visa and never having set foot in the US is "a path to Green Card" if H1B is one too. >I think just Googling 'H1-B dual intent'' I was hoping you'd do that and find for yourself how wrong you are.
        hash872 7mo ago
        This might not be a fruitful discussion because I get the impression you're a bit ideologically dug in on this. I would like to think my subject matter expertise is reasonably high given that this intersects with my IRL job. But yes: "Congress enacted INA § 214(b) in 1990, explicitly excluding H-1B visas (under INA § 101(a)(15)(H)(i)) from the presumption that nonimmigrant applicants are intending immigrants. Unlike most nonimmigrant categories requiring proof of no immigrant intent, H-1B omits any foreign residence requirement in its definition, enabling holders to pursue permanent residency without jeopardizing status" https://global.temple.edu/isss/faculty-staff-and-researchers/international-employees/h-1b-applicants/maintaining-legal-h-1b-status/immigration-concept-dual-intent https://global.temple.edu/isss/faculty-staff-and-researchers... "The Immigration Act of 1990 created the modern H-1B program as a "bridge" to green cards, allowing immediate work while navigating permanent residency processes that included labor tests. Senate Judiciary Committee reports emphasized streamlined H-1B procedures without recruitment delays to avoid productivity losses, with senators like Arlen Specter and Slade Gorton highlighting needs for quick access to skilled talent. This dual-intent design responded to prior issues, like the Schwartz case, where immigrant intent prosecutions prompted the 1990 carve-out" https://www.cato.org/blog/why-congress-rejected-h-1b-recruitment-requirement https://www.cato.org/blog/why-congress-rejected-h-1b-recruit...
- Muromec 7mo ago
  The EU is mostly clamping down on asylum seekers that are abusing the procedural rules, despite not having a solid claim on asylum. Think of someone from a place that isn't nice enough, but well above the threshold of absolute shitshow with genocidal aftertaste that allows protection. Such people, by virtue of claiming to require asylum get temporary protection and right to residence and then clog the system by appealing everything ten times with the obviously foreseeable result of not being granted anything. The current idea that is supposed to solve everything is hosting the immigration ghettos offshore (surprise surprise) to not upset the local population until the positive decision is made. Right populists are mostly riding the racist feeling and the idea that the actual legitimate asylum seekers are undesirable, because they are Muslim, because immigrants leech on the system and all that, plus the actually observable existence of ethnic (organized) crime. All at the same time, the tech immigration is very easy as long as you get an offer. No quotas, no 100k shakedown, not even a degree requirement or a language test, just someone willing to fill the form and pay like 500 bucks in processing fees and pay you the above media salary. Family immigration isn't restricted either and partners of citizens and immigrants get right to work (because what else they would do here, lol). But the actual non-fancy low-skilled low-paid immigrants are either EU citizens from less affluent side of the continent or the (former) asylum status holders (which is straight path to citizenship most of the time). Packages have to sorted, garbage trucks have to be driven and cheaply. But sure, anti-immigration attitudes we have. So yeah, the only sure way to fly in a Thai cook is to marry her or give her husband a tech job.
  - nxm 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Muromec 7mo ago
      Yeah, before open borders became a left thingy, it was called free market so local business gets that cheap labor. Now, once the profits are booked is the time of the classic switcheroo -- put the negative externalities on the society and blaming the left for trying to deal with them.
  - Izikiel43 7mo ago
p_l 7mo ago
They should also trigger holds on bunch of other operations, like stock buyouts or sales by people with active or recent relationship to the company
- thebytefairy 7mo ago
  Employees should not be able to sell their stock if their company decides to do layoffs? What is the rationale?
  - p_l 7mo ago
    Because if there's stock-based renumeration, it's 100% certain it applies and probably is considerable portion of renumeration of those deciding on layoffs. Honestly, I'd preferably make it so that stock movement is frozen for a time except for laid off employees
fooker 7mo ago
When you are puzzled about something, the first step is to find out why something works like it does. :) With green cards, the government is concerned about permanent residents being dependent on the state if a company ceases to exist or fails to pay salaries or lays people off. This worry is largely not present for limited term work visas.
fhn 7mo ago
So hire 30k H1Bs first and then fire 30k? Outcome is pretty much the same.
Izikiel43 7mo ago
I agree, if you are doing layoffs, you should be banned from the following year H1B visa lottery. If you really need some extraordinary guy, there other visas for that.

orochimaaru 7mo ago

The H1B has “speciality” categories. You can lay off in one “speciality” while hiring for others. It’s silly but that’s how it’s setup at the moment. I agree with you. The category list in H1B needs to be trimmed. So that companies have less wiggle room for things like this. The layoffs were also worldwide. Not sure what the impact to US workers was. India was hit hard.

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]

PearlRiver 7mo ago

The US only has two political parties and they are both, secretly, pro immigration. The EU is actually clamping down on it because of populist/far right parties. I know someone who runs a Thai restaurant and he cannot fly in a cook from Asia. He has to find someone from Europe.

junofan 7mo ago
To be fair the US is pro-immigration and that’s no secret. H1-B is a guest worker visa. Those jobs could equally go to immigrants.
- hash872 7mo ago
  No, H1-B is a dual intent visa- working and a path to a Green Card. It's always been that way
  - pandaman 7mo ago
    What doe "dual intent" mean and can you show me any government statement confirming that it's a path to a Green Card?
    - hash872 7mo ago
      It seems like you already understand what dual intent means- it's both a temporary working visa and a path to a Green Card. Yes, the government issues I-140s to H1-Bs, which are another step on the path to a GC. The government has an entire series of steps laid out for H1-B visa holders to follow to get a Green Card. I think just Googling 'H1-B dual intent' is going to give you more info than I could realistically fit in a comment here
      - pandaman 7mo ago
        > it's both a temporary working visa and a path to a Green Card. It's not though. It's a DoS policy wrt of issuing non-immigrant visas. >Yes, the government issues I-140s to H1-Bs So? The government issues I-140s to non-H1Bs too. Not having any US visa and never having set foot in the US is "a path to Green Card" if H1B is one too. >I think just Googling 'H1-B dual intent'' I was hoping you'd do that and find for yourself how wrong you are.
        hash872 7mo ago
        This might not be a fruitful discussion because I get the impression you're a bit ideologically dug in on this. I would like to think my subject matter expertise is reasonably high given that this intersects with my IRL job. But yes: "Congress enacted INA § 214(b) in 1990, explicitly excluding H-1B visas (under INA § 101(a)(15)(H)(i)) from the presumption that nonimmigrant applicants are intending immigrants. Unlike most nonimmigrant categories requiring proof of no immigrant intent, H-1B omits any foreign residence requirement in its definition, enabling holders to pursue permanent residency without jeopardizing status" https://global.temple.edu/isss/faculty-staff-and-researchers/international-employees/h-1b-applicants/maintaining-legal-h-1b-status/immigration-concept-dual-intent https://global.temple.edu/isss/faculty-staff-and-researchers... "The Immigration Act of 1990 created the modern H-1B program as a "bridge" to green cards, allowing immediate work while navigating permanent residency processes that included labor tests. Senate Judiciary Committee reports emphasized streamlined H-1B procedures without recruitment delays to avoid productivity losses, with senators like Arlen Specter and Slade Gorton highlighting needs for quick access to skilled talent. This dual-intent design responded to prior issues, like the Schwartz case, where immigrant intent prosecutions prompted the 1990 carve-out" https://www.cato.org/blog/why-congress-rejected-h-1b-recruitment-requirement https://www.cato.org/blog/why-congress-rejected-h-1b-recruit...
Muromec 7mo ago
The EU is mostly clamping down on asylum seekers that are abusing the procedural rules, despite not having a solid claim on asylum. Think of someone from a place that isn't nice enough, but well above the threshold of absolute shitshow with genocidal aftertaste that allows protection. Such people, by virtue of claiming to require asylum get temporary protection and right to residence and then clog the system by appealing everything ten times with the obviously foreseeable result of not being granted anything. The current idea that is supposed to solve everything is hosting the immigration ghettos offshore (surprise surprise) to not upset the local population until the positive decision is made. Right populists are mostly riding the racist feeling and the idea that the actual legitimate asylum seekers are undesirable, because they are Muslim, because immigrants leech on the system and all that, plus the actually observable existence of ethnic (organized) crime. All at the same time, the tech immigration is very easy as long as you get an offer. No quotas, no 100k shakedown, not even a degree requirement or a language test, just someone willing to fill the form and pay like 500 bucks in processing fees and pay you the above media salary. Family immigration isn't restricted either and partners of citizens and immigrants get right to work (because what else they would do here, lol). But the actual non-fancy low-skilled low-paid immigrants are either EU citizens from less affluent side of the continent or the (former) asylum status holders (which is straight path to citizenship most of the time). Packages have to sorted, garbage trucks have to be driven and cheaply. But sure, anti-immigration attitudes we have. So yeah, the only sure way to fly in a Thai cook is to marry her or give her husband a tech job.
- nxm 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Muromec 7mo ago
    Yeah, before open borders became a left thingy, it was called free market so local business gets that cheap labor. Now, once the profits are booked is the time of the classic switcheroo -- put the negative externalities on the society and blaming the left for trying to deal with them.
- Izikiel43 7mo ago

p_l 7mo ago

They should also trigger holds on bunch of other operations, like stock buyouts or sales by people with active or recent relationship to the company

thebytefairy 7mo ago
Employees should not be able to sell their stock if their company decides to do layoffs? What is the rationale?
- p_l 7mo ago
  Because if there's stock-based renumeration, it's 100% certain it applies and probably is considerable portion of renumeration of those deciding on layoffs. Honestly, I'd preferably make it so that stock movement is frozen for a time except for laid off employees

fooker 7mo ago

When you are puzzled about something, the first step is to find out why something works like it does. :) With green cards, the government is concerned about permanent residents being dependent on the state if a company ceases to exist or fails to pay salaries or lays people off. This worry is largely not present for limited term work visas.

fhn 7mo ago

So hire 30k H1Bs first and then fire 30k? Outcome is pretty much the same.

Izikiel43 7mo ago

I agree, if you are doing layoffs, you should be banned from the following year H1B visa lottery. If you really need some extraordinary guy, there other visas for that.