4 ms·

> What is (or used to be?) implicit is that a person who has the means to be free of subsistence activities will/should take the time to *acquire a quality educ

> What is (or used to be?) implicit is that a person who has the means to be free of subsistence activities will/should take the time to *acquire a quality education and make an even better contribution to society and humanity. The rich got rich exactly by contributing to society and humanity. This is exactly what I mean by "rich people bad" local optima trap that you also seem to have fallen into.

heresie-dabord 7mo ago
> The rich got rich exactly by contributing to society and humanity. Pardon me, but this seems to be a local optima trap too.
- simianwords 7mo ago
  The difference is, I know the extent to which this is true and where it fails. I don't think you even acknowledge this is largely true.
  - rhines 7mo ago
    Is it true? Even on a small scale, when I taught kids how to swim for $20k/year I believe I did more for society than when I built systems to help a large streaming service deliver ads for $100k/year. There are certainly exceptions, but in general money comes from extracting value from others, while jobs that provide to society are not extractive and this pay less.
    - simianwords 7mo ago
      This is fundamentally wrong. If Elon created Tesla and made ~$100B of wealth from it, he also made all the other shareholders richer by way more. Not only that - the world now has Teslas it otherwise wouldn't. Everyone wins and there is no extraction of values (old Marxist jargon that needs to go away).
      - cindyllm 7mo ago
        [dead]
      - kmijyiyxfbklao 7mo ago
        That's all good if you assume people can't be tricked (tricked into paying more, tricked into buying something they don't want, tricked into working harder). The tricked person ends up with less and Elon ends up with more.
        simianwords 7mo ago
        yeah man i'm sorry i don't believe people were "tricked" into buying teslas or whatever
      - UncleMeat 7mo ago
        Is making shareholders rich contributing to society and humanity?
        simianwords 7mo ago
        yes it is. your pension scheme has stake on the same stocks.
        UncleMeat 7mo ago
        Yikes.
      - text0404 7mo ago
        EXACTLY, thank you! I run an international human trafficking and drug smuggling operation. I know that what I'm doing is good for society: - It makes me and my partners extremely rich - It creates jobs for at-risk youth - It provides products and services that people want It benefits society! I am a benefit to society! Why can't anyone see this?
      - rhines 7mo ago
        Yeah sorry I was thinking about value as more about quality of life and society. If you define it as shareholder value and producing stuff, then by definition corporations and their executives are of course contributing the most.
UncleMeat 7mo ago
Donald Trump is extracting mountains of wealth from the taxpayer by leveraging his position and the refusal of the GOP to do anything about his crimes. When he gets a payout by suing the government and then directing the government to pay him, how is hie contributing to society and humanity? Heck, a large portion of my wealth came from buying ETFs and watching the number go up. How did I contribute to society and humanity to achieve that?

heresie-dabord 7mo ago

> The rich got rich exactly by contributing to society and humanity. Pardon me, but this seems to be a local optima trap too.

simianwords 7mo ago
The difference is, I know the extent to which this is true and where it fails. I don't think you even acknowledge this is largely true.
- rhines 7mo ago
  Is it true? Even on a small scale, when I taught kids how to swim for $20k/year I believe I did more for society than when I built systems to help a large streaming service deliver ads for $100k/year. There are certainly exceptions, but in general money comes from extracting value from others, while jobs that provide to society are not extractive and this pay less.
  - simianwords 7mo ago
    This is fundamentally wrong. If Elon created Tesla and made ~$100B of wealth from it, he also made all the other shareholders richer by way more. Not only that - the world now has Teslas it otherwise wouldn't. Everyone wins and there is no extraction of values (old Marxist jargon that needs to go away).
    - cindyllm 7mo ago
      [dead]
    - kmijyiyxfbklao 7mo ago
      That's all good if you assume people can't be tricked (tricked into paying more, tricked into buying something they don't want, tricked into working harder). The tricked person ends up with less and Elon ends up with more.
      - simianwords 7mo ago
        yeah man i'm sorry i don't believe people were "tricked" into buying teslas or whatever
    - UncleMeat 7mo ago
      Is making shareholders rich contributing to society and humanity?
      - simianwords 7mo ago
        yes it is. your pension scheme has stake on the same stocks.
        UncleMeat 7mo ago
        Yikes.
    - text0404 7mo ago
      EXACTLY, thank you! I run an international human trafficking and drug smuggling operation. I know that what I'm doing is good for society: - It makes me and my partners extremely rich - It creates jobs for at-risk youth - It provides products and services that people want It benefits society! I am a benefit to society! Why can't anyone see this?
    - rhines 7mo ago
      Yeah sorry I was thinking about value as more about quality of life and society. If you define it as shareholder value and producing stuff, then by definition corporations and their executives are of course contributing the most.

UncleMeat 7mo ago

Donald Trump is extracting mountains of wealth from the taxpayer by leveraging his position and the refusal of the GOP to do anything about his crimes. When he gets a payout by suing the government and then directing the government to pay him, how is hie contributing to society and humanity? Heck, a large portion of my wealth came from buying ETFs and watching the number go up. How did I contribute to society and humanity to achieve that?