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The problem isn't that people are pursuing degrees, it's that some are pursuing economically unviable degrees. Here's a little anectdata from a friend. His daug

by greedo 14y ago

The problem isn't that people are pursuing degrees, it's that some are pursuing economically unviable degrees. Here's a little anectdata from a friend. His daughter is in debt $60k for a degree in theater. Did well in college, but wants to "make it" in NYC. Now obviously the theater industry is very competitive, especially in NYC. So while trying to do various theatrical activities to get her foot in the door, she's a dog walker. She doesn't make much money, so she's qualifying for assistance. She could move back home, get a job in a different field (her dad has lined up several paying jobs), but she wants to stay in NYC. She's unable to make any payments on her loans, so those are going to build up quickly. This is what drives fiscal conservatives crazy. And when groups are asking for student loan debt forgiveness/bailout, it's doubly frustrating. She's making multiple choices that are fiscally imprudent, and expecting to be subsidized both in assistance and loan forgiveness. TLDR, basketweaving degrees aren't worth going into debt for, but an entitled generation wants to "pursue their dreams" on someone else's dime.

mkr-hn 14y ago
Anecdotes do not prove the existence of an entitled generation. I have plenty of contrary anecdotes, and they would mean as much.
bobwaycott 14y ago
I really think you need to get your biases in check. Pursuing one's dreams is exactly what the last couple generations have been raised to do. They didn't exit the womb feeling entitled. They were told since near birth they could be whatever they wanted to be. They were told they needed to go to college. They did exactly as they were told and wound up with little to show for it and an overwhelmingly difficult job market. They have been following the cultural narrative. Now, they're thinking, "What the fuck?" and society is acting like it didn't push them headlong into this. By the time they've realized the narrative failed them, it's too late.
- greedo 14y ago
  I agree 100% with your reply, but I guess I've got a blind spot about my biases. In the case of my friend's daughter, she's aware of her options, realizes that she's not making any progress towards her dreams, but refuses to acknowledge the failed narrative. If she was thinking "WTF?" she'd be moving on and not dogwalking...
  - bobwaycott 14y ago
    Again, biases. You might be thinking, "WTF?" and rapidly moving on. That doesn't extend to people generally. The stronger a narrative, the longer people tend to hit their face against the brick walls of failure, believing the part of the narrative that's been telling them if they work and try hard enough for long enough, their dreams will become reality. I'm obviously just commentating from the outside, but are you sure she is aware of her options in the same way you feel you are? What exactly are the options of someone who is trying to pursue her dreams? Do you step in and crush them, telling her it's time to give up and get practical? She'll be bombarded with anecdotes from the narrative that tell her to never give up. It's all-consuming. That's what cultural narratives do. The narrative tells people to become self-actualized. The economic realities of a capitalist marketplace don't really have much room for that. The narrative has placed her in the disheartening place of having followed it and wound up unable to realize her dreams. That can be a very difficult place to move on from.
    - greedo 14y ago
      Agreed. I do have far more experience with moving on. I've pursued two different "dream" careers, and am now in a third that seems to be the best fit for me. She seems disheartened by her lack of success in the last five years, but I know from personal experience that it's hard to change direction without a huge outside catalyst. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to encourage people to follow their dreams, but I think that society in general and parents specifically should do a better job of raising kids with the ability to critically evaluate themselves. Parents are often blind to the flaws of their children (at least I am), and the business world loves to encourage the idea of following your dreams. Expecting teenagers to have this self-awareness isn't realistic though; some do, but the majority need to skin their knees a bit. Parents need to help with this. It's a tough nut to crack; we glamorize sports and celebrity when the chances of succeeding in those arenas are miniscule. We celebrate working with our minds and denigrate those who work with their hands.

by greedo 14y ago

mkr-hn 14y ago

Anecdotes do not prove the existence of an entitled generation. I have plenty of contrary anecdotes, and they would mean as much.

bobwaycott 14y ago

I really think you need to get your biases in check. Pursuing one's dreams is exactly what the last couple generations have been raised to do. They didn't exit the womb feeling entitled. They were told since near birth they could be whatever they wanted to be. They were told they needed to go to college. They did exactly as they were told and wound up with little to show for it and an overwhelmingly difficult job market. They have been following the cultural narrative. Now, they're thinking, "What the fuck?" and society is acting like it didn't push them headlong into this. By the time they've realized the narrative failed them, it's too late.

greedo 14y ago
I agree 100% with your reply, but I guess I've got a blind spot about my biases. In the case of my friend's daughter, she's aware of her options, realizes that she's not making any progress towards her dreams, but refuses to acknowledge the failed narrative. If she was thinking "WTF?" she'd be moving on and not dogwalking...
- bobwaycott 14y ago
  Again, biases. You might be thinking, "WTF?" and rapidly moving on. That doesn't extend to people generally. The stronger a narrative, the longer people tend to hit their face against the brick walls of failure, believing the part of the narrative that's been telling them if they work and try hard enough for long enough, their dreams will become reality. I'm obviously just commentating from the outside, but are you sure she is aware of her options in the same way you feel you are? What exactly are the options of someone who is trying to pursue her dreams? Do you step in and crush them, telling her it's time to give up and get practical? She'll be bombarded with anecdotes from the narrative that tell her to never give up. It's all-consuming. That's what cultural narratives do. The narrative tells people to become self-actualized. The economic realities of a capitalist marketplace don't really have much room for that. The narrative has placed her in the disheartening place of having followed it and wound up unable to realize her dreams. That can be a very difficult place to move on from.
  - greedo 14y ago
    Agreed. I do have far more experience with moving on. I've pursued two different "dream" careers, and am now in a third that seems to be the best fit for me. She seems disheartened by her lack of success in the last five years, but I know from personal experience that it's hard to change direction without a huge outside catalyst. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to encourage people to follow their dreams, but I think that society in general and parents specifically should do a better job of raising kids with the ability to critically evaluate themselves. Parents are often blind to the flaws of their children (at least I am), and the business world loves to encourage the idea of following your dreams. Expecting teenagers to have this self-awareness isn't realistic though; some do, but the majority need to skin their knees a bit. Parents need to help with this. It's a tough nut to crack; we glamorize sports and celebrity when the chances of succeeding in those arenas are miniscule. We celebrate working with our minds and denigrate those who work with their hands.