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Because to accomplish anything at scale you need organization. And organizing humans in anything other than forced labor involves respecting them, thus things l
by tclancy 7mo ago
Because to accomplish anything at scale you need organization. And organizing humans in anything other than forced labor involves respecting them, thus things like codes of conduct. These stories could be about anything and you gamergate veterans will show up grinding one of those axes. Care to throw in wild speculation about whether they use “master” as their main branch name, “slave” as backup database terminology or “allowlist”. You know, any of those things that are keeping America from being great and winning the war.
- jaapz 7mo agoThere are many open source projects out there that accomplished many things on an insane scale that are driven by single developers Or do you mean scale of organization?
- steve1977 7mo ago> Because to accomplish anything at scale you need organization. I guess the question is does the size of the organization match the scale of what they want to accomplish?
- replooda 7mo agoOpenBSD, a rather more complex project, seems to be doing fine without a code of conduct — in the sense bakugo employed "code of conduct," not in the generalized sensed you conflated it with in your non sequitur.
- toyg 7mo agoI mean, I like openbsd the product, but the community culture is notoriously terrible and unwelcoming to newbies.
- replooda 7mo agoI find it just the opposite. I can think of few communities nearly as patient or welcoming to anyone who's earnest and willing to put in the work to learn; true, there's no coddling or hand-holding, and, indeed, it tends to be very direct in calling out foolishness or laziness, and can reach epic proportions when it comes to dishonesty or entitlement, but nothing which can't be processed by emotional maturity, nor the gratuitous pedanticism-fueled browbeating often seen in some I-use-foo-btw open-source communities despite their shiny CoCs.
- nobodyandproud 7mo ago> I find it just the opposite. I can think of few communities nearly as patient or welcoming to anyone who's earnest and willing to put in the work to learn; true, there's no coddling or hand-holding, and, indeed, it tends to be very direct in calling out foolishness or laziness, That’s nearly the exact opposite of welcoming newbies. To be perfectly honest, that’s fine: OpenBSD demands a steep learning curve and that you know what you’re doing.
- replooda 7mo agoWhat is? No coddling? Little tolerance toward laziness? Zero toward entitlement? That's closer to the opposite of being patronizing, I would say. They point to documentation in response to the kind of request I've seen closed with RTFMs elsewhere. They'll expect one to read it, and try one's hand at whatever one is trying to accomplish — and they'll feel slighted by a refusal, given how much work they put into it. And yet, they go to great, unexpected (given the fame) lengths to help someone actually making the effort; they don't try to put anyone down in order to feel bigger than they are, but they don't sugar coat things to appear more likable either. In short, no, knowing what one is doing isn't a prerequisite; it's more about not foisting onto others the responsibility for the effort required to move from where one is to where one wants to be — whether in knowledge, maturity or tools.
- nobodyandproud 7mo agoWhat do you consider laziness? Why do you believe pointing to the manual is newbie friendly? In the Linux world, it took ages before it was newbie friendly (thinking Ubuntu and Mint). OpenBSD serves an important niche, but to brand it as newbie-friendly does OpenBSD a disservice. Or perhaps you mean newbie tolerant?
- replooda 7mo ago> What do you consider laziness? In this context, what I expanded above as foisting onto others the responsibility for the effort required by what we want to accomplish. > Why do you believe pointing to the manual is newbie friendly? To the documentation, which may or may not be a manpage; as it's usually done in response to a request for the information contained therein, I do find it reasonable. > OpenBSD serves an important niche, but to brand it as newbie-friendly does OpenBSD a disservice. We're discussing OpenBSD's community, not the system itself. > Or perhaps you mean newbie tolerant? I meant what I wrote, that I find the community to be the opposite of "notoriously terrible and unwelcoming to newbies," by which I do not imply newbie-friendliness in a kindergarten sense.
- warkdarrior 7mo agoOpenBSD has a "netiquette" doc for its mailing lists: https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html Not sure if you want to count it as a "code of conduct", but it certainly defines rules on how to communicate and contribute to the project.
- replooda 7mo agoI'd count it as one in the general sense I'd count the style(9) manpage as another, not in the specific sense I indicated I was referring to: > ... fine without a code of conduct — in the sense bakugo employed "code of conduct," not in the generalized sense ...
- psychoslave 7mo agoOrganisation can take many form. Hierarchy and bureaucracy are two possible applicable categories in that domain.
- bakugo 7mo agoTIL open source projects simply didn't work before a certain (often big tech associated) crowd of non-contributors started forcing bureaucracy and codes of conduct down everyone's throats less than a decade ago.
- rmunn 7mo ago> Because to accomplish anything at scale you need organization. And organizing humans in anything other than forced labor involves respecting them, thus things like codes of conduct. This part of your comment was worthwhile. You should have stopped there, before starting to grind an unrelated political axe. Let's at least try to follow the "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity." guideline, eh?