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No I don't have a fundamental misunderstanding. In the entire thread I'm talking about docker, not "containers" in general. You seem to have a misunderstanding

by megous 6mo ago

No I don't have a fundamental misunderstanding. In the entire thread I'm talking about docker, not "containers" in general. You seem to have a misunderstanding apparently. I've been working with "containers" since before docker existed, and I also wrote several applications that use basic technologies so called "docker containers" are based on in Linux. You can use these technologies (various namespaces, etc.) in a way that does not waste RAM. That will not happen for common docker use, where you don't control the apps and base OS completely. You can if you try hard make it efficient, but you have to have a lot of control. The moment you start pulling random dockerfiles from random sources, you'll be wasting colossal amounts of resources compared to just installing packages on your host OS, to share maximum amount of resources. And for all these "let's have just a big static binary and put it into a container" containers, that don't really have/or need a real full OS userspace under them, there's barely any difference deployment wise from just running them without docker. In fact docker is just a very complicated additional duplicated layer in this case for what systemd does, that most people already have on their OS. So that's another RAM waste and additional overhead from what is now reduced to a service manager in this use case scenario.

karlgkk 6mo ago
> No I don't have a fundamental misunderstanding. In the entire thread I'm talking about docker, not "containers" in general. You seem to have a misunderstanding apparently. i said modern containers. and you do have a FUNDAMENTAL MISUNDERSTANDING. you are repeating falsehoods throughout this entire thread. > That will not happen for common docker use again you are asserting a "common" use of software, when the people youre replying to are clearly using it for development > where you don't control the apps and base OS completely stopping saying "you" to me. id tell you to speak for yourself but you seem incapable of doing that > And for all these "let's have just a big static binary and put it into a container" containers, that don't really have/or need a real full OS userspace under them, there's barely any difference deployment wise from just running them without docker. ironically enough it does have differences, glaring big differences. like ironically the deployment differences are about the only reason to use docker in this situation another stark example of you popping off with incorrect assertions. and yes there are reasons not to do use docker for this as well but it depends on multiple factors > In fact docker is just a very complicated additional duplicated layer in this case for what systemd does, that most people already have on their OS. So that's another RAM waste and additional overhead from what is now reduced to a service manager in this use case scenario. there are so many misconceptions in there asserted as if theyre the entire truth. yes people can use docker containers poorly but its not everyone. > The moment you start pulling random dockerfiles from random sources, you'll be wasting colossal amounts of resources compared to just installing packages on your host OS, to share maximum amount of resources. its a good thing that I'm not doing that! ive already stated that im using them to build software, not just "pulling random dockerfiles from random sources" you are digging your heels in and you are now trying to assert a set of conditions and situation in which youre correct, even though youre dead wrong for the use cases that the people youre replying to are describing you have repeated falsehoods as fact repeatedly and seem unable to adjust to people telling you "im not doing that thing youre complaining about" frankly, i think youre out of your depth on this subject and youre trying to do anything you can justify your original claim that 1GiB is enough, or whatever TLDR feel free to have the last word, im sure youll have lots of them. maybe youll get lucky and a few will be correct. im exiting this conversation
- megous 6mo ago
  there are no real deployment differences, eg. systemd has portable services, full containers via nspawn, etc. and there are many other ways to realize what docker does with or without containers (eg. what yandex does internally by just packaging their internal software and parts of configuration into debian packages, and manage reproducibility that way) and you don't provide any other technical arguments what remains is you strongly telling me something I already acknowledged in the previous post (that you can perhaps make efficient use of docker, but it's hard to make it not waste resources in general use case)

by megous 6mo ago

karlgkk 6mo ago

> No I don't have a fundamental misunderstanding. In the entire thread I'm talking about docker, not "containers" in general. You seem to have a misunderstanding apparently. i said modern containers. and you do have a FUNDAMENTAL MISUNDERSTANDING. you are repeating falsehoods throughout this entire thread. > That will not happen for common docker use again you are asserting a "common" use of software, when the people youre replying to are clearly using it for development > where you don't control the apps and base OS completely stopping saying "you" to me. id tell you to speak for yourself but you seem incapable of doing that > And for all these "let's have just a big static binary and put it into a container" containers, that don't really have/or need a real full OS userspace under them, there's barely any difference deployment wise from just running them without docker. ironically enough it does have differences, glaring big differences. like ironically the deployment differences are about the only reason to use docker in this situation another stark example of you popping off with incorrect assertions. and yes there are reasons not to do use docker for this as well but it depends on multiple factors > In fact docker is just a very complicated additional duplicated layer in this case for what systemd does, that most people already have on their OS. So that's another RAM waste and additional overhead from what is now reduced to a service manager in this use case scenario. there are so many misconceptions in there asserted as if theyre the entire truth. yes people can use docker containers poorly but its not everyone. > The moment you start pulling random dockerfiles from random sources, you'll be wasting colossal amounts of resources compared to just installing packages on your host OS, to share maximum amount of resources. its a good thing that I'm not doing that! ive already stated that im using them to build software, not just "pulling random dockerfiles from random sources" you are digging your heels in and you are now trying to assert a set of conditions and situation in which youre correct, even though youre dead wrong for the use cases that the people youre replying to are describing you have repeated falsehoods as fact repeatedly and seem unable to adjust to people telling you "im not doing that thing youre complaining about" frankly, i think youre out of your depth on this subject and youre trying to do anything you can justify your original claim that 1GiB is enough, or whatever TLDR feel free to have the last word, im sure youll have lots of them. maybe youll get lucky and a few will be correct. im exiting this conversation

megous 6mo ago
there are no real deployment differences, eg. systemd has portable services, full containers via nspawn, etc. and there are many other ways to realize what docker does with or without containers (eg. what yandex does internally by just packaging their internal software and parts of configuration into debian packages, and manage reproducibility that way) and you don't provide any other technical arguments what remains is you strongly telling me something I already acknowledged in the previous post (that you can perhaps make efficient use of docker, but it's hard to make it not waste resources in general use case)