3 ms·

Is this incident not reason enough? Astronauts in space are needing remote support to debug it, and taking up priceless mission time.

hatthew 6mo ago
Sure, but bespoke software isn't necessarily going to be more reliable. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-... > The idea that new code is better than old is patently absurd. Old code has been used. It has been tested. Lots of bugs have been found, and they’ve been fixed.
- SamBam 6mo ago
  Alpine and Mutt are about 20 and 30 years old, respectively.
- applfanboysbgon 6mo ago
  This quote is completely and totally irrelevant. Nobody is saying they should code a new Outlook. If they did code something, it would be significantly smaller in scope and rigorously tested like spacebound programs in the past were. "New space-engineering-grade code created with actual engineering practices" is absolutely going to be more reliable than "old bloated commercial shitware". But I guess software engineering is a lost art, so it can't be helped.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 6mo ago
    It's also going to take a hell of a lot longer and cost more than buying an Outlook license. If I was lead on that project, you'd have an uphill battle trying to convince me that spending $100k+ on an email solution unless you can point to specific, serious deficiencies in the existing off the shelf solutions. Software Engineering is far from a lost art: part of the practice is intelligently making cost-benefit decisions.
    - applfanboysbgon 6mo ago
      The current solution is literally causing problems in space. Space-grade engineering is expensive, but having things go wrong on your already very expensive mission is even more expensive.
      - dotancohen 6mo ago
        Until we've had this failure, I do agree that using COTS software was the logical choice. And now we know better.
        tremon 6mo ago
        Sure, but people who didn't know better until this particular incident do not deserve the title "engineer". Being able to classify and manage risks before they happen is engineering 101.
        dotancohen 6mo ago
        Engineering requires working around constraints as well - and a major constraint of any project I've worked on was budget. If they wrote a new email client and it had some bug, we'd be laughing about why they didn't use one of the COTS email clients.
      - orf 6mo ago
        It’s a personal communication device. It’s not mission critical.
- fc417fc802 6mo ago
  Alpine and mutt are about as far from bespoke as it gets. Both are far less likely to suffer from bugs than outlook.
HeyLaughingBoy 6mo ago
And that problem would go away with a 30 year-old solution?
- fc417fc802 6mo ago
  That problem would be much less likely with a minimalist battle tested OSS solution whose maintainers and users have decidedly different priorities than those governing something like outlook or even thunderbird. The higher the stakes the more valuable minimalism becomes.

hatthew 6mo ago

Sure, but bespoke software isn't necessarily going to be more reliable. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-... > The idea that new code is better than old is patently absurd. Old code has been used. It has been tested. Lots of bugs have been found, and they’ve been fixed.

SamBam 6mo ago
Alpine and Mutt are about 20 and 30 years old, respectively.
applfanboysbgon 6mo ago
This quote is completely and totally irrelevant. Nobody is saying they should code a new Outlook. If they did code something, it would be significantly smaller in scope and rigorously tested like spacebound programs in the past were. "New space-engineering-grade code created with actual engineering practices" is absolutely going to be more reliable than "old bloated commercial shitware". But I guess software engineering is a lost art, so it can't be helped.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6mo ago
  It's also going to take a hell of a lot longer and cost more than buying an Outlook license. If I was lead on that project, you'd have an uphill battle trying to convince me that spending $100k+ on an email solution unless you can point to specific, serious deficiencies in the existing off the shelf solutions. Software Engineering is far from a lost art: part of the practice is intelligently making cost-benefit decisions.
  - applfanboysbgon 6mo ago
    The current solution is literally causing problems in space. Space-grade engineering is expensive, but having things go wrong on your already very expensive mission is even more expensive.
    - dotancohen 6mo ago
      Until we've had this failure, I do agree that using COTS software was the logical choice. And now we know better.
      - tremon 6mo ago
        Sure, but people who didn't know better until this particular incident do not deserve the title "engineer". Being able to classify and manage risks before they happen is engineering 101.
        dotancohen 6mo ago
        Engineering requires working around constraints as well - and a major constraint of any project I've worked on was budget. If they wrote a new email client and it had some bug, we'd be laughing about why they didn't use one of the COTS email clients.
    - orf 6mo ago
      It’s a personal communication device. It’s not mission critical.
fc417fc802 6mo ago
Alpine and mutt are about as far from bespoke as it gets. Both are far less likely to suffer from bugs than outlook.

HeyLaughingBoy 6mo ago

And that problem would go away with a 30 year-old solution?

fc417fc802 6mo ago
That problem would be much less likely with a minimalist battle tested OSS solution whose maintainers and users have decidedly different priorities than those governing something like outlook or even thunderbird. The higher the stakes the more valuable minimalism becomes.