6 ms·

TBF - It still does "just work," The fact that it doesn't completely fit into your (and my) preferences doesn't really change that, and if that's the standard,

by sosborn 6mo ago

TBF - It still does "just work," The fact that it doesn't completely fit into your (and my) preferences doesn't really change that, and if that's the standard, then everything will fall short of it.

oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
If the icons are just hidden and you can't find them in order to use the programs you have running, that's not "just working". That's broken functionality. Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades.
- quietsegfault 6mo ago
  I have never seen anyone with enough menu bar icons to have them hide, nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem. It’s a bug that should be fixed, but I just don’t think it’s as big of a deal as it’s made out to be.
  - oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
    Just because you have never personally seen a bug occur doesn't mean it isn't a problem. This very article is about how Tailscale frequently gets reports of them being hidden. And I personally have had the icons hidden. My work laptop has a lot of stuff running on it (much of it is mandatory: VPN, custom company processes, Google Drive, etc) and combined with my personal preferred programs (f.lux, etc) it occasionally hits the limit and goes under the notch.
  - Kaliboy 6mo ago
    Did we read the same article? It literally drove them to create a new application.
    - oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
      This is the fairly standard Apple defensework where "it just works, but if it doesn't work it's probably not a real problem" despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - inopinatus 6mo ago
    "I don't have any experience with that problem, it follows that no-one has that problem".
  - sensanaty 6mo ago
    It only takes like 6 extra apps for items to start being hidden, it's really not that rare of an occurrence.
  - rcakebread 6mo ago
    "nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem" Why on earth would people tell you that?
- cpach 6mo ago
  I vastly prefer Mac over Windows, but I think you have a good point. This is definitely one area where Microsoft found a more reasonable solution.
- tokioyoyo 6mo ago
  I’ve been solely mac user for the past 15+ years, and have no idea what this thread is talking about. I think, as the other person said, we make assumptions on what’s a problem for others, when in reality, it’s not a big deal.
  - longislandguido 6mo ago
    Why does every Mac complaint thread since the beginning of time always feature the "I've never heard of this so it must not be a legitimate issue" guy?
    - fragmede 6mo ago
      Ah, but does it work when mice are using the computer, or is it only when humans are.
      - nandomrumber 6mo ago
        New research indicates proprietary software may be less toxic than scientists previously believed, in mice.
      - longislandguido 6mo ago
        Are these mice the one-button species?
        fragmede 6mo ago
        My biggest frustration with Apple was the number of buttons on their mouse. They heard my complains, and changed the number of buttons by one. I just didn't think they'd go to zero instead of two!
  - packetlost 6mo ago
    Just because you have never hit the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This particular issue will only really show up on notched devices with a small screen and a lot of status bar icons. It's highly dependent on what model mac you run on.
- dangus 6mo ago
  It will not only cut off icons but the menus for applications when they have a lot of them. There is no way to fix it except to change your scaling or connect a second monitor. I should save this thread for every time someone tries to tell me that Windows is a horrible operating system that is a major reason to not buy a computer when I say things like "The MacBook Neo isn't that good of a deal and you can totally find a Windows laptop in the price range that's built well enough, has similar performance/battery life (or better)/trackpad, and leaves you with more RAM, storage, and I/O." I've literally picked out laptops that are clearly better buys than the Neo/Air and people will tell me things like "well then you're stuck with Windows" or "but you'll have firmware problems" and then we have to remember that Apple has had plenty of that in their past. How about those Nvidia GPUs that would fail inevitably in older MacBook Pros? Or the butterfly keyboard? Or how they can’t even make window corners that match with the Liquid Glass update?
  - odo1242 6mo ago
    Do you have a suggestion for a Windows laptop that’s a better buy than the MacBook Neo? I kinda want a Windows laptop (for being able to run simple games, mostly) but not sure which one
    - dangus 6mo ago
      This can depend on what’s on sale in your region. I also have some thoughts about buying at this price range down below. I’ll shill a website for a YouTuber called bestlaptop.deals. It tracks sale prices and has reviews attached for the laptops, along with categories for use cases. Shopping for Macs less frequently involves big sales but with Windows laptops being patient can pay off. I’ve seen on recent reviews indicating Windows on ARM has made really great strides, from including support for anti-cheat for many online games. Not every game works but many do without any effort. I bring these up because the battery life is excellent and many of them are in the $500-600 range. https://youtube.com/watch?v=f8EbtQ7jQnQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=f8EbtQ7jQnQ Yes, that’s a sponsored video, but I’m linking it to show you his commentary on the software situation. For x86-based computers there are a couple of ways you can go: Since you mentioned gaming, you can sacrifice some portability and go with something like a Lenovo LOQ. A previous generation unit will cost about $700 and have an RTX 4050, which is enough to beat anything Apple will sell you before you get up to Pro chips. I believe there are other OEMs that may hit that price point with an RTX 5050 which of course will be an improvement. These systems do get good battery life when you’re in integrated graphics mode. When you’re gaming you’re going to be plugged in regardless of laptop. Another one I’ve seen on sale lately has been the Yoga 7 14” with either the Ryzen AI 340/512GB storage or the Ryzen AI 350/1TB of storage. I think the sales aren’t as good as were a couple weeks ago. These have a 2K OLED screen, 2-in-1 and pen support, generally good overall systems. The 350 model has significantly better integrated graphics performance so I’d try to stretch for that one. Finally, in-person I was really impressed with the Acer Aspire 14 AI for being only $530. I did wish the screen was a bit better but the rest of the system was really impressive to be hitting that price. There was an HP OmniBook I played with in store that had a great aluminum build, though the value wasn’t quite as good. It seemed like it was designed to compete with the Air and felt to me like an Air clone in a way. I haven’t touched on used, which is obviously an option. There are a lot of options there and I think it’s worth looking into. I would still say, if you can, spend more than what the MacBook Neo costs. The MacBook Neo isn’t a revolutionary device that changes the game in my mind. Instead, it’s a machine that makes a lot of similar sacrifices that other cheap laptops make. It’s better if you save up and spend more if you can. For example, you’re interested in gaming, you just missed an amazing sale on the RTX 5070Ti/32GB RAM version of the Zephyrus G14 at Best Buy. It was $500 off, so about $1800 for a really amazing machine that is basically the best thing and light gaming system on the market. Also keep in mind as I talk about this, I’m biased against 15-16” models. I like 14”.
- xnyan 6mo ago
  > Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades. I was a huge Windows fanboy, now completely Apple but this was single most annoying regression of functionality when switching and one of the only things I miss.
gehsty 6mo ago
It doesn’t just work though - icons are hidden from users, with no way of users knowing they are hidden. macOS is still better than windows, but my feeling is it’s more of a glass of cheap warm whiskey in hell than a cool glass of ice water.

by sosborn 6mo ago

TBF - It still does "just work," The fact that it doesn't completely fit into your (and my) preferences doesn't really change that, and if that's the standard, then everything will fall short of it.

oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago

If the icons are just hidden and you can't find them in order to use the programs you have running, that's not "just working". That's broken functionality. Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades.

quietsegfault 6mo ago
I have never seen anyone with enough menu bar icons to have them hide, nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem. It’s a bug that should be fixed, but I just don’t think it’s as big of a deal as it’s made out to be.
- oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
  Just because you have never personally seen a bug occur doesn't mean it isn't a problem. This very article is about how Tailscale frequently gets reports of them being hidden. And I personally have had the icons hidden. My work laptop has a lot of stuff running on it (much of it is mandatory: VPN, custom company processes, Google Drive, etc) and combined with my personal preferred programs (f.lux, etc) it occasionally hits the limit and goes under the notch.
- Kaliboy 6mo ago
  Did we read the same article? It literally drove them to create a new application.
  - oaweoifjwpo 6mo ago
    This is the fairly standard Apple defensework where "it just works, but if it doesn't work it's probably not a real problem" despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- inopinatus 6mo ago
  "I don't have any experience with that problem, it follows that no-one has that problem".
- sensanaty 6mo ago
  It only takes like 6 extra apps for items to start being hidden, it's really not that rare of an occurrence.
- rcakebread 6mo ago
  "nor have I known anyone who ran into that problem" Why on earth would people tell you that?
cpach 6mo ago
I vastly prefer Mac over Windows, but I think you have a good point. This is definitely one area where Microsoft found a more reasonable solution.
tokioyoyo 6mo ago
I’ve been solely mac user for the past 15+ years, and have no idea what this thread is talking about. I think, as the other person said, we make assumptions on what’s a problem for others, when in reality, it’s not a big deal.
- longislandguido 6mo ago
  Why does every Mac complaint thread since the beginning of time always feature the "I've never heard of this so it must not be a legitimate issue" guy?
  - fragmede 6mo ago
    Ah, but does it work when mice are using the computer, or is it only when humans are.
    - nandomrumber 6mo ago
      New research indicates proprietary software may be less toxic than scientists previously believed, in mice.
    - longislandguido 6mo ago
      Are these mice the one-button species?
      - fragmede 6mo ago
        My biggest frustration with Apple was the number of buttons on their mouse. They heard my complains, and changed the number of buttons by one. I just didn't think they'd go to zero instead of two!
- packetlost 6mo ago
  Just because you have never hit the issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This particular issue will only really show up on notched devices with a small screen and a lot of status bar icons. It's highly dependent on what model mac you run on.
dangus 6mo ago
It will not only cut off icons but the menus for applications when they have a lot of them. There is no way to fix it except to change your scaling or connect a second monitor. I should save this thread for every time someone tries to tell me that Windows is a horrible operating system that is a major reason to not buy a computer when I say things like "The MacBook Neo isn't that good of a deal and you can totally find a Windows laptop in the price range that's built well enough, has similar performance/battery life (or better)/trackpad, and leaves you with more RAM, storage, and I/O." I've literally picked out laptops that are clearly better buys than the Neo/Air and people will tell me things like "well then you're stuck with Windows" or "but you'll have firmware problems" and then we have to remember that Apple has had plenty of that in their past. How about those Nvidia GPUs that would fail inevitably in older MacBook Pros? Or the butterfly keyboard? Or how they can’t even make window corners that match with the Liquid Glass update?
- odo1242 6mo ago
  Do you have a suggestion for a Windows laptop that’s a better buy than the MacBook Neo? I kinda want a Windows laptop (for being able to run simple games, mostly) but not sure which one
  - dangus 6mo ago
    This can depend on what’s on sale in your region. I also have some thoughts about buying at this price range down below. I’ll shill a website for a YouTuber called bestlaptop.deals. It tracks sale prices and has reviews attached for the laptops, along with categories for use cases. Shopping for Macs less frequently involves big sales but with Windows laptops being patient can pay off. I’ve seen on recent reviews indicating Windows on ARM has made really great strides, from including support for anti-cheat for many online games. Not every game works but many do without any effort. I bring these up because the battery life is excellent and many of them are in the $500-600 range. https://youtube.com/watch?v=f8EbtQ7jQnQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=f8EbtQ7jQnQ Yes, that’s a sponsored video, but I’m linking it to show you his commentary on the software situation. For x86-based computers there are a couple of ways you can go: Since you mentioned gaming, you can sacrifice some portability and go with something like a Lenovo LOQ. A previous generation unit will cost about $700 and have an RTX 4050, which is enough to beat anything Apple will sell you before you get up to Pro chips. I believe there are other OEMs that may hit that price point with an RTX 5050 which of course will be an improvement. These systems do get good battery life when you’re in integrated graphics mode. When you’re gaming you’re going to be plugged in regardless of laptop. Another one I’ve seen on sale lately has been the Yoga 7 14” with either the Ryzen AI 340/512GB storage or the Ryzen AI 350/1TB of storage. I think the sales aren’t as good as were a couple weeks ago. These have a 2K OLED screen, 2-in-1 and pen support, generally good overall systems. The 350 model has significantly better integrated graphics performance so I’d try to stretch for that one. Finally, in-person I was really impressed with the Acer Aspire 14 AI for being only $530. I did wish the screen was a bit better but the rest of the system was really impressive to be hitting that price. There was an HP OmniBook I played with in store that had a great aluminum build, though the value wasn’t quite as good. It seemed like it was designed to compete with the Air and felt to me like an Air clone in a way. I haven’t touched on used, which is obviously an option. There are a lot of options there and I think it’s worth looking into. I would still say, if you can, spend more than what the MacBook Neo costs. The MacBook Neo isn’t a revolutionary device that changes the game in my mind. Instead, it’s a machine that makes a lot of similar sacrifices that other cheap laptops make. It’s better if you save up and spend more if you can. For example, you’re interested in gaming, you just missed an amazing sale on the RTX 5070Ti/32GB RAM version of the Zephyrus G14 at Best Buy. It was $500 off, so about $1800 for a really amazing machine that is basically the best thing and light gaming system on the market. Also keep in mind as I talk about this, I’m biased against 15-16” models. I like 14”.
xnyan 6mo ago
> Windows has solved this with the overflow menu for literally decades. I was a huge Windows fanboy, now completely Apple but this was single most annoying regression of functionality when switching and one of the only things I miss.

gehsty 6mo ago

It doesn’t just work though - icons are hidden from users, with no way of users knowing they are hidden. macOS is still better than windows, but my feeling is it’s more of a glass of cheap warm whiskey in hell than a cool glass of ice water.