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> No it's not, it's enforcing the norms of civil discourse You don't see how that is exclusionary to people who struggle with norms? I guess if you're born n

> No it's not, it's enforcing the norms of civil discourse You don't see how that is exclusionary to people who struggle with norms? I guess if you're born neurodivergent and can't handle social norms, you don't deserve any kind of grace. You can't ever contribute anything worthwhile or meaningful if you don't live up to all of society's polite norms. Good to know Never change Hacker News

kstrauser 7mo ago
Oh behalf of the neurodivergent people surrounding me, 100% of whom successfully resist any temptation to say the n-word in my presence that they may ever feel, it's reprehensible that you're conflating racism and neurodiversity. I've never, not once, ever, heard someone blame their racism on ADHD.
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  You've never encountered someone who is pretty autistic and doesn't care about (or perhaps understand) the social consequences of using slurs? Or someone bipolar who gets kind of erratic and can say really out of character stuff when they are going through a manic episode? Or someone with tourettes that might say something that pops in their head unexpectedly? Sure thing about ADHD. You're right that people with the executive function disorder don't tend to blurt wild social faux pas. But there are also people with social function disorders who might. It doesn't necessarily mean they are terrible people
  - kstrauser 7mo ago
    This is an insultingly narrow definition of "neurodivergent" limited to people with profound impediments to social functions. I'd already explicitly excluded people with Tourette's and other major challenges, but you knew that, so now I presume you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Have a nice day.
    - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
      I just want you to know I'm similarly frustrated with you and also feel you are arguing just to argue, and deliberately trying to take my words in the worst possible light Like seriously. > This is an insultingly narrow definition of "neurodivergent"? No! I'm trying to define it as a broader scope of behaviors than just "my friends with ADHD" like you did! What a frustrating interaction. I hope you're pleased with yourself
ChrisMarshallNY 7mo ago
Speaking as one, I have found that I have never gotten "grace" from most folks. A few folks have been especially patient with me, over the years, and for that, I'm grateful; but they haven't been the norm. I used to go to Japan, quite often, and watched Americans violating societal norms, all the time. The Japanese were usually fairly good at not lashing back, but I could see them visibly restraining themselves, sometimes. Over the course of about a decade, I learned to at least respect their ways. I found the Germans to be less accepting of annoying Americans (and I was one). I learned a lot quicker, there. I know that many folks think that self-diagnosing as "on the spectrum" is considered some kind of "get out of jail asshole" card, but that's just an urban myth. If you're an asshole, you'll usually be treated like one; no matter the reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrblUUIG8So https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrblUUIG8So
- bluefirebrand 7mo ago
  > Speaking as one, I have found that I have never gotten "grace" from most folks. A few folks have been especially patient with me, over the years, and for that, I'm grateful; but they haven't been the norm This mirrors my experience too. I think my bitterness about that is on full display in this thread
  - ChrisMarshallNY 7mo ago
    Well, in my case, I had to learn that I live in the NT (neurotypical) world; not the other way around. It's my job to adapt, and it's unreasonable for me to assume that others will, for me. In my experience, it's been worth it. Growing up overseas, in many different cultures, I think, has helped me with this. I wish you luck.
switchbak 7mo ago
"You don't see how that is exclusionary to people who struggle with norms" - I quite literally made a carve-out for exactly that situation. Does your neuro-divergence also make it hard to read the exact point that I made, or are you just trying to be difficult?

kstrauser 7mo ago

Oh behalf of the neurodivergent people surrounding me, 100% of whom successfully resist any temptation to say the n-word in my presence that they may ever feel, it's reprehensible that you're conflating racism and neurodiversity. I've never, not once, ever, heard someone blame their racism on ADHD.

bluefirebrand 7mo ago
You've never encountered someone who is pretty autistic and doesn't care about (or perhaps understand) the social consequences of using slurs? Or someone bipolar who gets kind of erratic and can say really out of character stuff when they are going through a manic episode? Or someone with tourettes that might say something that pops in their head unexpectedly? Sure thing about ADHD. You're right that people with the executive function disorder don't tend to blurt wild social faux pas. But there are also people with social function disorders who might. It doesn't necessarily mean they are terrible people
- kstrauser 7mo ago
  This is an insultingly narrow definition of "neurodivergent" limited to people with profound impediments to social functions. I'd already explicitly excluded people with Tourette's and other major challenges, but you knew that, so now I presume you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Have a nice day.
  - bluefirebrand 7mo ago
    I just want you to know I'm similarly frustrated with you and also feel you are arguing just to argue, and deliberately trying to take my words in the worst possible light Like seriously. > This is an insultingly narrow definition of "neurodivergent"? No! I'm trying to define it as a broader scope of behaviors than just "my friends with ADHD" like you did! What a frustrating interaction. I hope you're pleased with yourself

ChrisMarshallNY 7mo ago

Speaking as one, I have found that I have never gotten "grace" from most folks. A few folks have been especially patient with me, over the years, and for that, I'm grateful; but they haven't been the norm. I used to go to Japan, quite often, and watched Americans violating societal norms, all the time. The Japanese were usually fairly good at not lashing back, but I could see them visibly restraining themselves, sometimes. Over the course of about a decade, I learned to at least respect their ways. I found the Germans to be less accepting of annoying Americans (and I was one). I learned a lot quicker, there. I know that many folks think that self-diagnosing as "on the spectrum" is considered some kind of "get out of jail asshole" card, but that's just an urban myth. If you're an asshole, you'll usually be treated like one; no matter the reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrblUUIG8So https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrblUUIG8So

bluefirebrand 7mo ago
> Speaking as one, I have found that I have never gotten "grace" from most folks. A few folks have been especially patient with me, over the years, and for that, I'm grateful; but they haven't been the norm This mirrors my experience too. I think my bitterness about that is on full display in this thread
- ChrisMarshallNY 7mo ago
  Well, in my case, I had to learn that I live in the NT (neurotypical) world; not the other way around. It's my job to adapt, and it's unreasonable for me to assume that others will, for me. In my experience, it's been worth it. Growing up overseas, in many different cultures, I think, has helped me with this. I wish you luck.

switchbak 7mo ago

"You don't see how that is exclusionary to people who struggle with norms" - I quite literally made a carve-out for exactly that situation. Does your neuro-divergence also make it hard to read the exact point that I made, or are you just trying to be difficult?