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> That number is just recovered dead bodies. Well, it's certainly not limited to bodies that were confirmed by officials in a hospital or morgue. A lot of the

> That number is just recovered dead bodies. Well, it's certainly not limited to bodies that were confirmed by officials in a hospital or morgue. A lot of the casualty reports were from a Google form, or later, a self-hosted form (https://sehatty.ps/moh-registration/public/add-order https://sehatty.ps/moh-registration/public/add-order).

cogman10 6mo ago
> Well, it's certainly not limited to bodies that were confirmed by officials in a hospital or morgue. A lot of the casualty reports were from a Google form, or later, a self-hosted form Yes it is. Literally on that form "Not registered with the Palestinian Ministry of Health". This is a form to report missing people, the number of the dead are people identified by a doctor. Though that number has stagnated because all the hospitals have been destroyed by Israel.
- dlubarov 6mo ago
  No, that's just saying that the form is for reporting casualties that are not already registered with the MoH. Hamas' casualty numbers came from hospitals and morgues only in the first few months of war; that hasn't been the case for a long time. This isn't controversial - Hamas has been fairly open about incorporating "reliable media sources". I think only Hamas knows the breakdown for their latest numbers, but earlier they used to acknowledge how many casualty reports were based on online form submissions. For example you can see some old data in Figure 11b here: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/sites/default/files/pdf/PolicyNote158Epsteinv3.pdf https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/sites/default/files/pdf/...
  - cogman10 6mo ago
    Sorry, I'm not going to take seriously a report by an AIPAC funded institution from a guy who's basically spent all of Israel's genocide talking about how fake the Hamas numbers are. Basically all his reports have one narrative "It's not that bad, and actually it is all terrorists that Israel has killed". NGOs that have managed to get aid workers and doctors in (which, btw, are often killed by Israel) all say that the death toll is a massive undercount. [1] There, of course, is a solution here. It's for Israel to let in aid works and stop killing them [2] [1] https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240711-more-than-186-000-dead-in-gaza-how-credible-are-the-estimates-published-on-the-lancet https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240711-more-than-1... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_paramedic_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_paramedic_massacre
    - dlubarov 6mo ago
      Again this isn't controversial; you're denying something that Hamas themselves acknowledge. Sky News: "A total of 6,187 deaths had been confirmed via the online form as of 6 August." https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-conflict-thousands-remain-unidentified-as-death-toll-reaches-40-000-13197287 https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-conflict-thousands-remain-un... AP: "As Gaza’s hospital system collapsed in December and January, the ministry began relying on hard-to-verify “media reports” to register new deaths. Its March report included 531 individuals who were counted twice, and many deaths were self-reported by families, instead of health officials." https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-cas... Hamas themselves: https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza?before=6390 https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza?before=6390

cogman10 6mo ago

> Well, it's certainly not limited to bodies that were confirmed by officials in a hospital or morgue. A lot of the casualty reports were from a Google form, or later, a self-hosted form Yes it is. Literally on that form "Not registered with the Palestinian Ministry of Health". This is a form to report missing people, the number of the dead are people identified by a doctor. Though that number has stagnated because all the hospitals have been destroyed by Israel.

dlubarov 6mo ago
No, that's just saying that the form is for reporting casualties that are not already registered with the MoH. Hamas' casualty numbers came from hospitals and morgues only in the first few months of war; that hasn't been the case for a long time. This isn't controversial - Hamas has been fairly open about incorporating "reliable media sources". I think only Hamas knows the breakdown for their latest numbers, but earlier they used to acknowledge how many casualty reports were based on online form submissions. For example you can see some old data in Figure 11b here: https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/sites/default/files/pdf/PolicyNote158Epsteinv3.pdf https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/sites/default/files/pdf/...
- cogman10 6mo ago
  Sorry, I'm not going to take seriously a report by an AIPAC funded institution from a guy who's basically spent all of Israel's genocide talking about how fake the Hamas numbers are. Basically all his reports have one narrative "It's not that bad, and actually it is all terrorists that Israel has killed". NGOs that have managed to get aid workers and doctors in (which, btw, are often killed by Israel) all say that the death toll is a massive undercount. [1] There, of course, is a solution here. It's for Israel to let in aid works and stop killing them [2] [1] https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240711-more-than-186-000-dead-in-gaza-how-credible-are-the-estimates-published-on-the-lancet https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240711-more-than-1... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_paramedic_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_paramedic_massacre
  - dlubarov 6mo ago
    Again this isn't controversial; you're denying something that Hamas themselves acknowledge. Sky News: "A total of 6,187 deaths had been confirmed via the online form as of 6 August." https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-conflict-thousands-remain-unidentified-as-death-toll-reaches-40-000-13197287 https://news.sky.com/story/gaza-conflict-thousands-remain-un... AP: "As Gaza’s hospital system collapsed in December and January, the ministry began relying on hard-to-verify “media reports” to register new deaths. Its March report included 531 individuals who were counted twice, and many deaths were self-reported by families, instead of health officials." https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-casualties-toll-65e18f3362674245356c539e4bc0b67a https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-cas... Hamas themselves: https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza?before=6390 https://t.me/s/MOHMediaGaza?before=6390