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That number is absolutely staggering, and the fact that at least 20,000 of these are children is literally making me sick every time I think about it. To Israe

That number is absolutely staggering, and the fact that at least 20,000 of these are children is literally making me sick every time I think about it. To Israelis who think this is justified because your country was attacked - for every person killed in the initial attacks, your military has killed 20 children(and many more adults). And that's the ones that were outright killed, and not "just" had their limbs torn off and given lifelong disabilities. How is that proportionate, fair or in any way justifiable?

CommanderData 7mo ago
Clearly your an absolute anti-semite for having any empathy for Palestinians (who are Semities themselves).
falcor84 7mo ago
I'm not looking to defend Israel's actions or to take a political stance here, but just wanted to ask about the proportionality/fairness argument - to the best of my knowledge, a proportionality between casualties on the two sides is not an expectation of any rules of war, and I don't recall ever seeing it applied to other conflicts.
- gambiting 7mo ago
  That is correct, but every war should have an end at some point. To maybe ask this in a different way - how many more palestinian children have to die for the Israeli government to say "ok yeah we're done now". What is that number going to be? 20k? 100k? Every single one of them? Their stated objective is to eliminate th Hamas militants, but on the path to that goal the truly astounding civilian cost cannot justify the end, can it? Or if someone thinks it can, I'd ask - really? Surely there is a number between 0 and "every single person in Gaza" that would cause even the most hardened supporter of Israel to stop for a second? (although maybe not, given that there are Israeli politicians saying everyone above the age of 5 in gaza should be cut down, so maybe I'm too optimistic).
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    The only way this war will ever end is when either Gaza or Israel has disappeared. The colonists won't stop, ever.
  - jfengel 7mo ago
    It kinda doesn't have a body count limit. After October 7, practically all Israelis (even ones who are deeply opposed to the current government, the settlers, etc) said "This will not happen again, ever. And if that means sterilizing the Gaza Strip of all life, so be it." I heard that from many people, including a 90 year old nun. (I could not have imagined what Sister Claire-Edith would look like furious.) They simply couldn't imagine any course of action that would allow that to occur again. That didn't mean that exterminating Gaza was inevitable. They would have accepted a complete and unconditional surrender of its leadership, along with freeing all of the hostages, and allowing an outside force to establish a new government. I'm not saying that's fair; I'm trying to explain what the parameters were. It's clear (now more than ever) that the current government would have faced a quandary if that had happened. They wanted the war, more or less as it was carried out. But had Hamas surrendered, a lot of Israelis would have said "that's enough", and it would be much harder to continue in the face of public opposition. That never happened, so it continued. Eventually they did get fatigued, with time more than body count. Hostages were exchanged and Israel started to prep for the Iran war. (Iran played a significant part in funding that October 7 attack, though it's indirect enough that a lot of Israelis do not support this war.)
    - gambiting 7mo ago
      Thanks for such a complete answer. The question I have is - what now then? Because the war is still going on. What event is the Israeli state waiting for now, exactly? Whatever remains of Hamas leadership to say "we give up"? Would that even suffice? Because right now it looks like Israel will just continue killing people in Gaza until they get bored or run out of munitions, or have something else to do(like the war with Iran and other neighbours - which doesn't formally end the hostilities in Gaza anyway, just might ignore them for a bit). If that's the "plan" then yeah, it will continue until everyone there is dead, moved out, or.....I don't know if there is a 3rd option. And at that point it's just a systematic eradication of the entire population, which is precisely what genocide is.
- magicalhippo 7mo ago
  > to the best of my knowledge, a proportionality between casualties on the two sides is not an expectation of any rules of war If you were talking about combatants, you'd be correct. The main point about Gaza is that the majority of those who are killed are civilians[1]. And most civilized countries recognize[2] that civilians should be spared during armed conflicts. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20250821135825/https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war https://web.archive.org/web/20250821135825/https://www.thegu... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I_to_the_Geneva_Conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I_to_the_Geneva_Conve...
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- vkou 7mo ago
  Proportionate casualties is not a requirement, but targeting civilians is a war crime. The IDF has repeatedly and actively targeted civilians, even when no military targets are present in the area. They have not prosecuted the soldiers and commanders that have carried out those crimes. This makes the entire regime culpable, and given that it is a democracy, the electorate shares a part in that culpability. Notice that the entire polity of Palestinians is being held fully culpable for the actions of... Its unelected leadership. ... Also, using a war to displace an occupied civilian population is a genocide.
anilakar 7mo ago
While I absolutely despise what Israel is doing in Lebanon and Iran, it's hard to blame anyone but Hamas for the Gaza casualties. If you have no more free territory to fight on, you have lost. Give up.
- Zealotux 7mo ago
  What about the whole colonialism, forced displacement, and daily humiliation the Palestinians have been enduring since 1948? If someone came to your country and did that, how radical would you be?

CommanderData 7mo ago

Clearly your an absolute anti-semite for having any empathy for Palestinians (who are Semities themselves).

falcor84 7mo ago

I'm not looking to defend Israel's actions or to take a political stance here, but just wanted to ask about the proportionality/fairness argument - to the best of my knowledge, a proportionality between casualties on the two sides is not an expectation of any rules of war, and I don't recall ever seeing it applied to other conflicts.

gambiting 7mo ago
That is correct, but every war should have an end at some point. To maybe ask this in a different way - how many more palestinian children have to die for the Israeli government to say "ok yeah we're done now". What is that number going to be? 20k? 100k? Every single one of them? Their stated objective is to eliminate th Hamas militants, but on the path to that goal the truly astounding civilian cost cannot justify the end, can it? Or if someone thinks it can, I'd ask - really? Surely there is a number between 0 and "every single person in Gaza" that would cause even the most hardened supporter of Israel to stop for a second? (although maybe not, given that there are Israeli politicians saying everyone above the age of 5 in gaza should be cut down, so maybe I'm too optimistic).
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  The only way this war will ever end is when either Gaza or Israel has disappeared. The colonists won't stop, ever.
- jfengel 7mo ago
  It kinda doesn't have a body count limit. After October 7, practically all Israelis (even ones who are deeply opposed to the current government, the settlers, etc) said "This will not happen again, ever. And if that means sterilizing the Gaza Strip of all life, so be it." I heard that from many people, including a 90 year old nun. (I could not have imagined what Sister Claire-Edith would look like furious.) They simply couldn't imagine any course of action that would allow that to occur again. That didn't mean that exterminating Gaza was inevitable. They would have accepted a complete and unconditional surrender of its leadership, along with freeing all of the hostages, and allowing an outside force to establish a new government. I'm not saying that's fair; I'm trying to explain what the parameters were. It's clear (now more than ever) that the current government would have faced a quandary if that had happened. They wanted the war, more or less as it was carried out. But had Hamas surrendered, a lot of Israelis would have said "that's enough", and it would be much harder to continue in the face of public opposition. That never happened, so it continued. Eventually they did get fatigued, with time more than body count. Hostages were exchanged and Israel started to prep for the Iran war. (Iran played a significant part in funding that October 7 attack, though it's indirect enough that a lot of Israelis do not support this war.)
  - gambiting 7mo ago
    Thanks for such a complete answer. The question I have is - what now then? Because the war is still going on. What event is the Israeli state waiting for now, exactly? Whatever remains of Hamas leadership to say "we give up"? Would that even suffice? Because right now it looks like Israel will just continue killing people in Gaza until they get bored or run out of munitions, or have something else to do(like the war with Iran and other neighbours - which doesn't formally end the hostilities in Gaza anyway, just might ignore them for a bit). If that's the "plan" then yeah, it will continue until everyone there is dead, moved out, or.....I don't know if there is a 3rd option. And at that point it's just a systematic eradication of the entire population, which is precisely what genocide is.
magicalhippo 7mo ago
> to the best of my knowledge, a proportionality between casualties on the two sides is not an expectation of any rules of war If you were talking about combatants, you'd be correct. The main point about Gaza is that the majority of those who are killed are civilians[1]. And most civilized countries recognize[2] that civilians should be spared during armed conflicts. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20250821135825/https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/aug/21/revealed-israeli-militarys-own-data-indicates-civilian-death-rate-of-83-in-gaza-war https://web.archive.org/web/20250821135825/https://www.thegu... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I_to_the_Geneva_Conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_I_to_the_Geneva_Conve...
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vkou 7mo ago
Proportionate casualties is not a requirement, but targeting civilians is a war crime. The IDF has repeatedly and actively targeted civilians, even when no military targets are present in the area. They have not prosecuted the soldiers and commanders that have carried out those crimes. This makes the entire regime culpable, and given that it is a democracy, the electorate shares a part in that culpability. Notice that the entire polity of Palestinians is being held fully culpable for the actions of... Its unelected leadership. ... Also, using a war to displace an occupied civilian population is a genocide.

anilakar 7mo ago

While I absolutely despise what Israel is doing in Lebanon and Iran, it's hard to blame anyone but Hamas for the Gaza casualties. If you have no more free territory to fight on, you have lost. Give up.

Zealotux 7mo ago
What about the whole colonialism, forced displacement, and daily humiliation the Palestinians have been enduring since 1948? If someone came to your country and did that, how radical would you be?