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There are several ways of looking at law and order. One way is that the law applies to everybody equally. That has been the way it works for many years, not pe
by Frieren 7mo ago
There are several ways of looking at law and order.
One way is that the law applies to everybody equally. That has been the way it works for many years, not perfectly, in democratic countries.
There is another way of working were the law is not blind. Laws are applied based in who is the one affected. This is what big tech and the ultra-rich have been advocating for. The law applies differently to nobility and aristocrats than to the working class.
So, for all this big tech companies the law is clear: I can copy from you, you cannot copy from me.
(That is horrifying in case that anyone needs me to spell it out)
- miki123211 7mo agoA third way of looking at it is that you can't just blindly copy arguments when the situations are clearly different. Nobody, not even Anthropic, is arguing that they should be able to host other people's paid content for free. The crux of their fair-use defense is that models are transformative works, just like parodies or book reviews, and hence should be treated as fair use. You can't just take a pile of books (no pun intended) and turn that into Claude in a day with 30 lines of Python, there's a lot of work and know-how on the Anthropic side that goes into making a good LLM.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- gmerc 7mo agoIt’s 200 lines of python
- lukewarm707 7mo agoanthropic argue that you should not use claude API to train your model Situation A - Anthropic pays for a book - Anthropic transform the book into a new llm (transformative use) -> OK Situation B - I pay for Anthropic API - I transform API responses into a new model (transformative use) -> Not OK the situations, are clearly the same
- miki123211 7mo agoAnthropic goes book->llm, you do llm->llm. Very different amounts of transformativeness.
- lukewarm707 7mo agothis is the most honest argument for it. i respect that. my impression is that if open models did 'distill' claude they made some interesting and productive ideas, like deepseek's more efficient attention
- pythontongue 7mo ago...idk...both transformations use transformers... thereby they both achieve adequate levels of "transformativeness" \s
- 112233 7mo agoIf lossy-compressed transcodes of ripped movies are not "transformative works" and can get people even jailed, then lossy-compressed text of ripped books and websites is neither. There is a lot of knowhow going into a good divx rip too, you know. And it enables so much novel uses such as popcorn time, with fluorishing business opportunities. You wouldn't download a car. They did.
- dgb23 7mo agoIn other words, the law is an instrument if power. That’s a cynical view, but unfortunately it seems true in many cases, especially for corporate law.
- crimony 7mo ago"there is an in-group for which the law protects but does not bind, and an out-group to which the law binds but does not protect"