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I will warn you, Ubuntu is basically dead now. Canonical announced that they are no longer using Debian as a base, but the unvetted packages compiled and uploa

I will warn you, Ubuntu is basically dead now. Canonical announced that they are no longer using Debian as a base, but the unvetted packages compiled and uploaded by random people on Snap. Please switch to Linux, but find a distro that actually wants you as a user.

sonzohan 6mo ago
Is your name a reference to the Blizzard game? If so, I worked on that :) You're not wrong, but tbh I'd move upstream to Debian. I use Termux on my phone (Z Fold) with Debian and XFCE, and have been extremely pleased with the performance. Combined with a folding keyboard and some AirNeo's, it's become a fantastic micro-development system that fits in a hand bag. Not that I don't like Arch, it has a very few (subtle!) things that Ubuntu has solved recently, like eGPU hotplugging
- DiabloD3 6mo ago
  Nope, my nick predates Blizzard Entertainment, Co. I chose it as my nick on IRC in early 1991, and have used it everywhere ever since.
yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
> Canonical announced that they are no longer using Debian as a base When was that? I don't disagree that it appears to be the case (especially with replacing coreutils/sudo/etc and the... varied approach to .deb vs snaps) but I'm not aware of them saying it explicitly in those terms?
vkazanov 6mo ago
As somebody who has been around linux almost for as long as it exists, i must say that is a very strong statement. In real life: systemd IS useful, Wayland is becoming (has become?) the default, ubuntu is the most popular desktop distro family.
- imp0cat 6mo ago
  He's not wrong though, the amount of Snap stuff you have to remove in a fresh install is starting to get a bit annoying (I usually remove at least the Snap versions of Firefox and Thunderbird and replace them with binaries from Mozilla - they will still self-update).
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    You don't have to remove them though, it works fine.
    - imp0cat 6mo ago
      You are right, the snap versions mostly work fine. It's just that there are a lot of annoyances due to the nature of Snap packages (slowness, increased disk space requirements, problematic integration with the rest of the system...), but it definitely is possible to live with them.
- heavyset_go 6mo ago
  In my experience, Snap is frustrating to use, buggy and is opinionated in ways I don't like. It's also a weird choice for servers running Ubuntu. I recall some CLI utilities being moved to Snap and you can't install them with apt anymore.
  - mikkupikku 6mo ago
    Ubuntu on servers has always been "a choice", Debian is definitely the preferable of the two. Even on desktops, I'd sooner suggest Debian or Mint than Ubuntu. Ubuntu is a dead distro coasting on a reputation 15(+) years out of date. (And it used to be that Ubuntu was still a defensible choice for maximizing the chance of getting help online, but LLMs have effectively neutralized this advantage.)
    - traderj0e 6mo ago
      Mint still uses Xorg, so it's outdated. I tried it recently, it wasn't working with my iGPU+dGPU (nothing exotic, just a regular PC), and all the other distros already went to Wayland so nobody was talking about this online. I feel bad for anyone who gets convinced to switch from Windows to Mint, being told it's the easy one. The fix was to just install Ubuntu. Maybe Xorg is inherently better than Wayland, but that doesn't matter, the ship has sailed and the community evidently doesn't have time to properly support both.
theevilsharpie 6mo ago
> Canonical announced that they are no longer using Debian as a base, but the unvetted packages compiled and uploaded by random people on Snap. Citation very much needed for this claim.
flohofwoe 6mo ago
If that means that package versions for commonly used tools are less than a decade old in the future that's probably a good thing though ;)
hrmtst93837 6mo ago
[flagged]
traderj0e 6mo ago
Sorry but this comment is part of the reason anyone should rightfully be scared to switch to Linux. Not only do you have to pick one of 999 distros, but every choice is wrong according to someone. Which one do you recommend, and is it the kind that will throw random issues or be called evil?
- fsflover 6mo ago
  Debian, if you need a rock-stable system; Fedora for cutting edge.
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    Yeah those are fine choices, but someone is going to say why they're actually horrible, just like Ubuntu which is also fine
  - drnick1 6mo ago
    These are good choices, also consider Arch if you want the most agency over what goes into your system. That being said, you can also build a very minimal system with Debian from the command line with the arch-install-scripts. It's just that Debian stable will freeze relatively old packages for the sake of avoiding breaking updates, such as changes in configuration files that require manual intervention. On a gaming rig however, you will typically want to avoid Debian as you want the latest drivers, latest Proton/Wine, etc. as the performance uplift can be substantial and compatibility keeps improving.
    - fsflover 6mo ago
      For the most agency over my system I prefer Qubes OS. I use Debian and Fedora inside VMs. Their mnimized versions are available from the Qubes repositories.

sonzohan 6mo ago

Is your name a reference to the Blizzard game? If so, I worked on that :) You're not wrong, but tbh I'd move upstream to Debian. I use Termux on my phone (Z Fold) with Debian and XFCE, and have been extremely pleased with the performance. Combined with a folding keyboard and some AirNeo's, it's become a fantastic micro-development system that fits in a hand bag. Not that I don't like Arch, it has a very few (subtle!) things that Ubuntu has solved recently, like eGPU hotplugging

DiabloD3 6mo ago
Nope, my nick predates Blizzard Entertainment, Co. I chose it as my nick on IRC in early 1991, and have used it everywhere ever since.

yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago

> Canonical announced that they are no longer using Debian as a base When was that? I don't disagree that it appears to be the case (especially with replacing coreutils/sudo/etc and the... varied approach to .deb vs snaps) but I'm not aware of them saying it explicitly in those terms?

vkazanov 6mo ago

As somebody who has been around linux almost for as long as it exists, i must say that is a very strong statement. In real life: systemd IS useful, Wayland is becoming (has become?) the default, ubuntu is the most popular desktop distro family.

imp0cat 6mo ago
He's not wrong though, the amount of Snap stuff you have to remove in a fresh install is starting to get a bit annoying (I usually remove at least the Snap versions of Firefox and Thunderbird and replace them with binaries from Mozilla - they will still self-update).
- traderj0e 6mo ago
  You don't have to remove them though, it works fine.
  - imp0cat 6mo ago
    You are right, the snap versions mostly work fine. It's just that there are a lot of annoyances due to the nature of Snap packages (slowness, increased disk space requirements, problematic integration with the rest of the system...), but it definitely is possible to live with them.
heavyset_go 6mo ago
In my experience, Snap is frustrating to use, buggy and is opinionated in ways I don't like. It's also a weird choice for servers running Ubuntu. I recall some CLI utilities being moved to Snap and you can't install them with apt anymore.
- mikkupikku 6mo ago
  Ubuntu on servers has always been "a choice", Debian is definitely the preferable of the two. Even on desktops, I'd sooner suggest Debian or Mint than Ubuntu. Ubuntu is a dead distro coasting on a reputation 15(+) years out of date. (And it used to be that Ubuntu was still a defensible choice for maximizing the chance of getting help online, but LLMs have effectively neutralized this advantage.)
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    Mint still uses Xorg, so it's outdated. I tried it recently, it wasn't working with my iGPU+dGPU (nothing exotic, just a regular PC), and all the other distros already went to Wayland so nobody was talking about this online. I feel bad for anyone who gets convinced to switch from Windows to Mint, being told it's the easy one. The fix was to just install Ubuntu. Maybe Xorg is inherently better than Wayland, but that doesn't matter, the ship has sailed and the community evidently doesn't have time to properly support both.

theevilsharpie 6mo ago

> Canonical announced that they are no longer using Debian as a base, but the unvetted packages compiled and uploaded by random people on Snap. Citation very much needed for this claim.

flohofwoe 6mo ago

If that means that package versions for commonly used tools are less than a decade old in the future that's probably a good thing though ;)

hrmtst93837 6mo ago

[flagged]

traderj0e 6mo ago

Sorry but this comment is part of the reason anyone should rightfully be scared to switch to Linux. Not only do you have to pick one of 999 distros, but every choice is wrong according to someone. Which one do you recommend, and is it the kind that will throw random issues or be called evil?

fsflover 6mo ago
Debian, if you need a rock-stable system; Fedora for cutting edge.
- traderj0e 6mo ago
  Yeah those are fine choices, but someone is going to say why they're actually horrible, just like Ubuntu which is also fine
- drnick1 6mo ago
  These are good choices, also consider Arch if you want the most agency over what goes into your system. That being said, you can also build a very minimal system with Debian from the command line with the arch-install-scripts. It's just that Debian stable will freeze relatively old packages for the sake of avoiding breaking updates, such as changes in configuration files that require manual intervention. On a gaming rig however, you will typically want to avoid Debian as you want the latest drivers, latest Proton/Wine, etc. as the performance uplift can be substantial and compatibility keeps improving.
  - fsflover 6mo ago
    For the most agency over my system I prefer Qubes OS. I use Debian and Fedora inside VMs. Their mnimized versions are available from the Qubes repositories.