4 ms·

$16B is the top line gross revenue number. You don't count R&D as an expense per GAAP, so... They have claimed $8B in EBITDA, also leaving out the amortizatio

$16B is the top line gross revenue number. You don't count R&D as an expense per GAAP, so... They have claimed $8B in EBITDA, also leaving out the amortization of R&D costs. Those aren't audited numbers, as far as I know.

pnw 7mo ago
Audited financials would be released with the S-1. But it's very unlikely that they are not audited given the amount of money they have raised.
JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
[flagged]
- projektfu 7mo ago
  Good to know.
- Xunjin 7mo ago
  Care to share more about?
  - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    [flagged]
  - jrflowers 7mo ago
    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up
scuff3d 7mo ago
No related to this conversation, but I just started reading some books on finance and I actually know what most of those terms mean now! Lol
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  Good for you! It’s fun when you realize it’s a constructed language that also tends towards precision. While accounting is not my favorite, financial models as a whole are incredibly powerful reasoning tools. On par, for me, with engineering or physics based first-principles reasoning.
  - instagraham 7mo ago
    Which financial models best describe reality in your opinion? I'd always wanted to view affairs from a different lens, though I often feel the people who think everything revolves around bond rates or inflation numbers can miss the social picture of why things happen.
    - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
      > Which financial models best describe reality in your opinion? The most-powerful ones for individuals are the micreconomic mechanisms. Understanding how leverage, tranching and moving risk (and reward) across stakeholders and time, work, for instance. The necessary mechanisms and tradeoffs one must make, as well as the ones one should. If you're looking for a formal model, it's the balance sheet. But not the accountant's. The financier's. Sources and uses, and uses and sources. Payments in, payments out. How do they balance over time; how do they change exposures to different layers of economic and legal control. The primitives of these models are transactions and people. When you look through them, they're defining human wants and ambitions, faults and fears, patience and mortality.
      - eekjj 7mo ago
        That’s such an overly complicated answer. I’ve noticed people from a financial background often do this. Why? Does it make you feel special? Lmao. It’s all basic stuff, often wrapped in jargon to throw people off. If the fella wants to be properly informed, he needs a very strong understanding of fundamental microeconomic principles, along with macroeconomics. On top of that an understanding of financial accounting. And… on top of that an understanding of corporate finance and valuation. Aswath Damodaran (look him Up on YouTube) is the go-to person for this. Only then you will form a complete picture of what’s going on and make well informed statements about the future.
infinitewars 7mo ago
That article claiming $8b profit is indeed mislabeling EBITDA as profit. EBITDA removes any recurring replenishment costs, the cost of building the satellite, launching the satellite, the user equipment manufacturing and returns, all ground infrastructure build and replacement, all employee stock compensation (not counted!), no advertising costs (and they've actually had to do a lot of that lately to scrounge customers that are remote enough that their network isn't too congested to serve), no taxes are counted (though they get out of that because they have no profit!). Not to mention payments servicing all their debt and Starship development. *they actually use "Adjusted EBITDA" which is even more nonstandard and means they define the accounting however they want!
- grooker 7mo ago
  Right the commercial side never added up 90% of the valuation is about Golden Dome
- Betelbuddy 7mo ago
  >> *they actually use "Adjusted EBITDA" which is even more nonstandard and means they define the accounting however they want! Enron would be proud...Theranos-level Transparency...
rotiron 7mo ago
Arn't R&D costs expensed as incurred under GAAP?
- projektfu 7mo ago
  Software for sale or lease is treated specially. It may be expensed or it may be capitalized.

pnw 7mo ago

Audited financials would be released with the S-1. But it's very unlikely that they are not audited given the amount of money they have raised.

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago

[flagged]

projektfu 7mo ago
Good to know.
Xunjin 7mo ago
Care to share more about?
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  [flagged]
- jrflowers 7mo ago
  https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/source-i-made-it-up

scuff3d 7mo ago

No related to this conversation, but I just started reading some books on finance and I actually know what most of those terms mean now! Lol

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
Good for you! It’s fun when you realize it’s a constructed language that also tends towards precision. While accounting is not my favorite, financial models as a whole are incredibly powerful reasoning tools. On par, for me, with engineering or physics based first-principles reasoning.
- instagraham 7mo ago
  Which financial models best describe reality in your opinion? I'd always wanted to view affairs from a different lens, though I often feel the people who think everything revolves around bond rates or inflation numbers can miss the social picture of why things happen.
  - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > Which financial models best describe reality in your opinion? The most-powerful ones for individuals are the micreconomic mechanisms. Understanding how leverage, tranching and moving risk (and reward) across stakeholders and time, work, for instance. The necessary mechanisms and tradeoffs one must make, as well as the ones one should. If you're looking for a formal model, it's the balance sheet. But not the accountant's. The financier's. Sources and uses, and uses and sources. Payments in, payments out. How do they balance over time; how do they change exposures to different layers of economic and legal control. The primitives of these models are transactions and people. When you look through them, they're defining human wants and ambitions, faults and fears, patience and mortality.
    - eekjj 7mo ago
      That’s such an overly complicated answer. I’ve noticed people from a financial background often do this. Why? Does it make you feel special? Lmao. It’s all basic stuff, often wrapped in jargon to throw people off. If the fella wants to be properly informed, he needs a very strong understanding of fundamental microeconomic principles, along with macroeconomics. On top of that an understanding of financial accounting. And… on top of that an understanding of corporate finance and valuation. Aswath Damodaran (look him Up on YouTube) is the go-to person for this. Only then you will form a complete picture of what’s going on and make well informed statements about the future.

infinitewars 7mo ago

That article claiming $8b profit is indeed mislabeling EBITDA as profit. EBITDA removes any recurring replenishment costs, the cost of building the satellite, launching the satellite, the user equipment manufacturing and returns, all ground infrastructure build and replacement, all employee stock compensation (not counted!), no advertising costs (and they've actually had to do a lot of that lately to scrounge customers that are remote enough that their network isn't too congested to serve), no taxes are counted (though they get out of that because they have no profit!). Not to mention payments servicing all their debt and Starship development. *they actually use "Adjusted EBITDA" which is even more nonstandard and means they define the accounting however they want!

grooker 7mo ago
Right the commercial side never added up 90% of the valuation is about Golden Dome
Betelbuddy 7mo ago
>> *they actually use "Adjusted EBITDA" which is even more nonstandard and means they define the accounting however they want! Enron would be proud...Theranos-level Transparency...

rotiron 7mo ago

Arn't R&D costs expensed as incurred under GAAP?

projektfu 7mo ago
Software for sale or lease is treated specially. It may be expensed or it may be capitalized.