4 ms·

EVs are still a bit underwhelming wrt range - ideally either 450miles/700km or 5 minute 20->80% recharge at an acceptable price (35k EUR) should be the norm. Fo

by storus 7mo ago

EVs are still a bit underwhelming wrt range - ideally either 450miles/700km or 5 minute 20->80% recharge at an acceptable price (35k EUR) should be the norm. For cities it doesn't matter but for longer vacation trips it's a must, nobody wants to waste 3 hours on a 1100km trip recharging. Chinese EVs might be able to deliver it at this price point (BYD) but EU adds additional (up to) 45% in extra fees to penalize Chinese EV makers and to prevent collapse of EU car makers.

toomuchtodo 7mo ago
1 in 4 vehicles sold globally last year were EVs, and they are >50% of the monthly sales in China, the largest market in the world. EVs are mostly solved, even though they will continue to rapidly improve, both range and charging infrastructure. Norway is at ~100% monthly EV sales, other countries will get there eventually. Importantly, we should expect to go faster as EV sales reach a point where combustion sales have declined to a level where they can no longer support combustion vehicle manufacturers as a going concern. Peak global combustion auto sales occurred in 2017. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47459145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47459145 (citations)
- storus 7mo ago
  The trend is clear but right now they aren't able to replace ICE cars due to what I mentioned above. Either they lack range/recharging convenience or they don't but are too expensive. They need a few more years of scaling or EU to stop penalizing Chinese EVs.
- nomel 7mo ago
  That 25% is including ICE. From the reference: > “Electric cars” include battery-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles
  - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
    ICE =! NEVs (which includes BEVs and PHEVs, with BEVs still the majority). If folks want to buy PHEVs until BEVs steamroll them, whatevs, the BEV cost decline and uptake curves speak for themselves. Combustion isn't getting cheaper anytime soon. https://cleantechnica.com/2026/02/03/global-ev-sales-leaders-2025-top-markets-powertrains/ https://cleantechnica.com/2026/02/03/global-ev-sales-leaders... https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025 https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-car-sales-battery-plugin https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-car-sales-battery-p... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/car-sales
    - nomel 6mo ago
      Hybrid contain an ICE, and are fully propelled by an ICE on the freeway (after some small miles). Their sale includes a fully operational ICE, often functionally independent. ICE is an acronym for internal combustion engine, a type of engine, not a type of car. ICE are used in all sorts of non car things. But you're correct that an ICE car is not an NEV car, which I never claimed.
Gud 7mo ago
Honest question, how often do you drive 1100km?
- storus 7mo ago
  On average once a month? Going skiing/biking in the mountains for the weekend or to some sea/lake with a boat.
  - Gud 7mo ago
    That’s a very unusual usage pattern.
    - storus 7mo ago
      I assume that's the comment you wanted to make all the time.
  - 878654Tom 7mo ago
    Once a month you embark on a 10 hour drive to spend a weekend skiing/boating and then returning with another 10 hour drive? So for 2 days of doing such activity you'll spent 20 hours in a car?
    - storus 7mo ago
      I can stay longer and work remotely from there as well. Anyway, why do you care what exactly do I do? I simply need the range or super fast recharging as non-negotiable items.
      - 878654Tom 6mo ago
        To understand your use-case you gladly presented to a public forum.
fhdkweig 7mo ago
You should not be spending that much time at a charger. Tech Connextras (the sister channel to Technology Connections) just did a video about a real-life road trip in slightly below freezing temperatures. "What unplanned EV road trips in cold weather (5°F/-15°C) are actually like these days" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebGLFVzvdfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebGLFVzvdfM
- cogman10 7mo ago
  Yup. It's standard to charge from 10->80% or even less like 20->60% when doing road trips. People that don't own EVs assume that it's always 0->100%. However, even in a gas vehicle you'd never start at 0% (I'd fill up at 25%->100%). The result is that you spend significantly less time charging than you expect. For me, it's usually 10 to 15 minutes per stop. Sometimes it's as long as 20. But that's generally after about 2 to 3 hours of driving. It's actually funny because I've owned my EV since 2018 and my parents STILL try to insist that I can't do road trips in it. Even though I visit them pretty frequently and do 6 hour trips pretty regularly. The other thing that is commonly missed is that you spend almost no time charging most of the time. It's only road trips where you spend any time waiting for a charge. That's because you are (likely) charging your car at home. The video referenced even shows that it's possible to do that with just a 120V outlet available.
  - storus 7mo ago
    Now how much time do you waste on a 700 mile road trip the way you recharge? I suspect something around 1-2 hours extra time. Compare it with gas station's 20 minutes overall including a short toilet break. For rapid charging you also need an expensive EV, whereas any gasoline clunker would do "fast tank filling".
    - cogman10 7mo ago
      > Now how much time do you waste on a 700 mile road trip the way you recharge? About 2 hours. And as luck would have it, I also did that trip with an ICE. My non-driving time added about an hour. > Compare it with gas station's 20 minutes overall including a short toilet break. Which you still need to do at least a couple of times driving 700 miles. Also, that's 10 hours of driving, you need more than just a single 20 minute break for that much driving. > For rapid charging you also need an expensive EV, If you are making 700 mile trips, you'll need an EV with decent range anyways. All of those support fast charging. Actually, all EVs I'm aware of support fast charging. The slowest I know of is the leaf, but even that supports 50kW charging. Look, if you are in the business of doing a weekly 700 mile drive in the snow pulling a loaded trailer, don't get an EV. You have my blessing. Most people aren't doing anything like that. My 700 mile round trip happens twice a year, roughly, and the added 1 hour over an ICE is no big deal. Distances more than that, and I'm probably flying.

by storus 7mo ago

toomuchtodo 7mo ago

1 in 4 vehicles sold globally last year were EVs, and they are >50% of the monthly sales in China, the largest market in the world. EVs are mostly solved, even though they will continue to rapidly improve, both range and charging infrastructure. Norway is at ~100% monthly EV sales, other countries will get there eventually. Importantly, we should expect to go faster as EV sales reach a point where combustion sales have declined to a level where they can no longer support combustion vehicle manufacturers as a going concern. Peak global combustion auto sales occurred in 2017. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47459145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47459145 (citations)

storus 7mo ago
The trend is clear but right now they aren't able to replace ICE cars due to what I mentioned above. Either they lack range/recharging convenience or they don't but are too expensive. They need a few more years of scaling or EU to stop penalizing Chinese EVs.
nomel 7mo ago
That 25% is including ICE. From the reference: > “Electric cars” include battery-electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles
- toomuchtodo 7mo ago
  ICE =! NEVs (which includes BEVs and PHEVs, with BEVs still the majority). If folks want to buy PHEVs until BEVs steamroll them, whatevs, the BEV cost decline and uptake curves speak for themselves. Combustion isn't getting cheaper anytime soon. https://cleantechnica.com/2026/02/03/global-ev-sales-leaders-2025-top-markets-powertrains/ https://cleantechnica.com/2026/02/03/global-ev-sales-leaders... https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025 https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-car-sales-battery-plugin https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-car-sales-battery-p... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/car-sales
  - nomel 6mo ago
    Hybrid contain an ICE, and are fully propelled by an ICE on the freeway (after some small miles). Their sale includes a fully operational ICE, often functionally independent. ICE is an acronym for internal combustion engine, a type of engine, not a type of car. ICE are used in all sorts of non car things. But you're correct that an ICE car is not an NEV car, which I never claimed.

Gud 7mo ago

Honest question, how often do you drive 1100km?

storus 7mo ago
On average once a month? Going skiing/biking in the mountains for the weekend or to some sea/lake with a boat.
- Gud 7mo ago
  That’s a very unusual usage pattern.
  - storus 7mo ago
    I assume that's the comment you wanted to make all the time.
- 878654Tom 7mo ago
  Once a month you embark on a 10 hour drive to spend a weekend skiing/boating and then returning with another 10 hour drive? So for 2 days of doing such activity you'll spent 20 hours in a car?
  - storus 7mo ago
    I can stay longer and work remotely from there as well. Anyway, why do you care what exactly do I do? I simply need the range or super fast recharging as non-negotiable items.
    - 878654Tom 6mo ago
      To understand your use-case you gladly presented to a public forum.

fhdkweig 7mo ago

You should not be spending that much time at a charger. Tech Connextras (the sister channel to Technology Connections) just did a video about a real-life road trip in slightly below freezing temperatures. "What unplanned EV road trips in cold weather (5°F/-15°C) are actually like these days" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebGLFVzvdfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebGLFVzvdfM

cogman10 7mo ago
Yup. It's standard to charge from 10->80% or even less like 20->60% when doing road trips. People that don't own EVs assume that it's always 0->100%. However, even in a gas vehicle you'd never start at 0% (I'd fill up at 25%->100%). The result is that you spend significantly less time charging than you expect. For me, it's usually 10 to 15 minutes per stop. Sometimes it's as long as 20. But that's generally after about 2 to 3 hours of driving. It's actually funny because I've owned my EV since 2018 and my parents STILL try to insist that I can't do road trips in it. Even though I visit them pretty frequently and do 6 hour trips pretty regularly. The other thing that is commonly missed is that you spend almost no time charging most of the time. It's only road trips where you spend any time waiting for a charge. That's because you are (likely) charging your car at home. The video referenced even shows that it's possible to do that with just a 120V outlet available.
- storus 7mo ago
  Now how much time do you waste on a 700 mile road trip the way you recharge? I suspect something around 1-2 hours extra time. Compare it with gas station's 20 minutes overall including a short toilet break. For rapid charging you also need an expensive EV, whereas any gasoline clunker would do "fast tank filling".
  - cogman10 7mo ago
    > Now how much time do you waste on a 700 mile road trip the way you recharge? About 2 hours. And as luck would have it, I also did that trip with an ICE. My non-driving time added about an hour. > Compare it with gas station's 20 minutes overall including a short toilet break. Which you still need to do at least a couple of times driving 700 miles. Also, that's 10 hours of driving, you need more than just a single 20 minute break for that much driving. > For rapid charging you also need an expensive EV, If you are making 700 mile trips, you'll need an EV with decent range anyways. All of those support fast charging. Actually, all EVs I'm aware of support fast charging. The slowest I know of is the leaf, but even that supports 50kW charging. Look, if you are in the business of doing a weekly 700 mile drive in the snow pulling a loaded trailer, don't get an EV. You have my blessing. Most people aren't doing anything like that. My 700 mile round trip happens twice a year, roughly, and the added 1 hour over an ICE is no big deal. Distances more than that, and I'm probably flying.