4 ms·

Given that it's a Russian company, serious question: does anyone care about violating their license? If so, why?

john_strinlai 6mo ago
if you make an exception to obeying licenses because "that person/company/country are bad" or whatever, exceptions start sneaking in all over the place, and the entire fabric deteriorates quickly afterwards. edit: did not expect people to be in favor of blatantly ignoring licenses. huh. anyone want to tell me how we determine who the bad people are that we can ignore their licenses, and who the good people are where we will honor them? what is the criteria?
- deaux 6mo ago
  China has been at this for centuries and is doing just fine. I can imagine Russia has too for a while and this in particular seems to have had very few negative consequences for them.
  - john_strinlai 6mo ago
    china also uses child labor, and are doing just fine. shall we adopt that practice as well? different in severity, but same logic.
    - deaux 6mo ago
      Completely irrelevant. > the entire fabric deteriorates quickly afterwards. It just disproves this entirely. China has been at it for decades, which entire fabric has detoriated? Have licenses been meaningless for decades because of the existence of China?
      - john_strinlai 6mo ago
        >which entire fabric has detoriated? the moral fabric of not stealing software and ignoring licenses. >Have licenses been meaningless for decades because of the existence of China? uh, in china? apparently yes! if that is how you want the rest of the world to operate too, that is your opinion. i think it will suck, but whatever. selectively applied law is fun when the laws are selectively applied against people you dont like. just gotta make sure you never get put in the wrong pile.
        deaux 6mo ago
        Adherence to licenses is completely meaningless if it's a one-way street. The whole concept of them is based on reciprocality. Since there's zero chance a Russian court is going to hold up a Western entity's complaint about a Russian entity's violation of their license, reciprocality is dead. This is a very mainstream concept so I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it.
        john_strinlai 6mo ago
        >This is a very mainstream concept so I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it. i am not worked up, but that is a good attempt at undermining my point by coming at me personally instead of my words.
- kube-system 6mo ago
  I mean, that sort of already did happen quickly in Feb 2022, with contracts a lot more significant than open source software... like when leases for 400 commercial jets were terminated over night, and Russia responded by seizing them. And the US started seizing yachts, real estate, and bank accounts of oligarchs. I'm not in favor of ignoring licenses, but practically speaking, they require legal nexus to function.
- stackghost 6mo ago
  I don't usually buy slippery slope arguments. It's not like Russia currently respects the Rule of Law.
  - john_strinlai 6mo ago
    >It's not like Russia currently respects the Rule of Law. but... we do? the argument is apparently that we also should ignore the rule of law. i dont think that would be a great idea for society, but i am just some dude.
    - stackghost 6mo ago
      The argument is that we should only obey the rule of law with counterparties who reciprocate, rather than voluntarily hamstring ourselves for no benefit other than moral purity.
      - john_strinlai 6mo ago
        right, damn pesky morals are always hamstringing human progress. my thinking is that once you start selectively applying rule of law to "good guys" and "bad guys" (or whatever criteria you pick), you have lost something really important. fingers crossed no one ever alters the criteria such that you fall on the "wrong" side!
        stackghost 6mo ago
        >my thinking is that once you start selectively applying rule of law to "good guys" and "bad guys" (or whatever criteria you pick), This is how the world already works. We do not inhabit an egalitarian utopia. There quite literally are bad guys. When you treat everyone like good guys, you end up with Donald Trump as the president instead of in jail.
        john_strinlai 6mo ago
        i did not expect people to advocate for ignoring licenses, and further, arguing that the rule of law should be selectively applied. but, i am too old to expend energy trying to convince people that the rule of law loses all meaning if it is selectively applied. so, sure, fuck licenses. if someone pisses you off, just say they were born in the wrong country and steal their shit. thankfully i am retiring soon, so i probably wont see the winners of this race to the bottom.
- Sabinus 6mo ago
  We could have reciprocity laws. If a country won't respect software licences, or permits hacking gangs as long as they don't rob from their own, then they should get the same treatment in return.
- croes 6mo ago
  Welcome to international law
deaux 6mo ago
[flagged]

if you make an exception to obeying licenses because "that person/company/country are bad" or whatever, exceptions start sneaking in all over the place, and the entire fabric deteriorates quickly afterwards. edit: did not expect people to be in favor of blatantly ignoring licenses. huh. anyone want to tell me how we determine who the bad people are that we can ignore their licenses, and who the good people are where we will honor them? what is the criteria?

deaux 6mo ago
China has been at this for centuries and is doing just fine. I can imagine Russia has too for a while and this in particular seems to have had very few negative consequences for them.
- john_strinlai 6mo ago
  china also uses child labor, and are doing just fine. shall we adopt that practice as well? different in severity, but same logic.
  - deaux 6mo ago
    Completely irrelevant. > the entire fabric deteriorates quickly afterwards. It just disproves this entirely. China has been at it for decades, which entire fabric has detoriated? Have licenses been meaningless for decades because of the existence of China?
    - john_strinlai 6mo ago
      >which entire fabric has detoriated? the moral fabric of not stealing software and ignoring licenses. >Have licenses been meaningless for decades because of the existence of China? uh, in china? apparently yes! if that is how you want the rest of the world to operate too, that is your opinion. i think it will suck, but whatever. selectively applied law is fun when the laws are selectively applied against people you dont like. just gotta make sure you never get put in the wrong pile.
      - deaux 6mo ago
        Adherence to licenses is completely meaningless if it's a one-way street. The whole concept of them is based on reciprocality. Since there's zero chance a Russian court is going to hold up a Western entity's complaint about a Russian entity's violation of their license, reciprocality is dead. This is a very mainstream concept so I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it.
        john_strinlai 6mo ago
        >This is a very mainstream concept so I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it. i am not worked up, but that is a good attempt at undermining my point by coming at me personally instead of my words.
kube-system 6mo ago
I mean, that sort of already did happen quickly in Feb 2022, with contracts a lot more significant than open source software... like when leases for 400 commercial jets were terminated over night, and Russia responded by seizing them. And the US started seizing yachts, real estate, and bank accounts of oligarchs. I'm not in favor of ignoring licenses, but practically speaking, they require legal nexus to function.
stackghost 6mo ago
I don't usually buy slippery slope arguments. It's not like Russia currently respects the Rule of Law.
- john_strinlai 6mo ago
  >It's not like Russia currently respects the Rule of Law. but... we do? the argument is apparently that we also should ignore the rule of law. i dont think that would be a great idea for society, but i am just some dude.
  - stackghost 6mo ago
    The argument is that we should only obey the rule of law with counterparties who reciprocate, rather than voluntarily hamstring ourselves for no benefit other than moral purity.
    - john_strinlai 6mo ago
      right, damn pesky morals are always hamstringing human progress. my thinking is that once you start selectively applying rule of law to "good guys" and "bad guys" (or whatever criteria you pick), you have lost something really important. fingers crossed no one ever alters the criteria such that you fall on the "wrong" side!
      - stackghost 6mo ago
        >my thinking is that once you start selectively applying rule of law to "good guys" and "bad guys" (or whatever criteria you pick), This is how the world already works. We do not inhabit an egalitarian utopia. There quite literally are bad guys. When you treat everyone like good guys, you end up with Donald Trump as the president instead of in jail.
        john_strinlai 6mo ago
        i did not expect people to advocate for ignoring licenses, and further, arguing that the rule of law should be selectively applied. but, i am too old to expend energy trying to convince people that the rule of law loses all meaning if it is selectively applied. so, sure, fuck licenses. if someone pisses you off, just say they were born in the wrong country and steal their shit. thankfully i am retiring soon, so i probably wont see the winners of this race to the bottom.
Sabinus 6mo ago
We could have reciprocity laws. If a country won't respect software licences, or permits hacking gangs as long as they don't rob from their own, then they should get the same treatment in return.
croes 6mo ago
Welcome to international law

deaux 6mo ago

[flagged]