4 ms·

> I get a feeling from overall anti-AI sentiment online that a lot of people feel they're entitled to 100% of value created by anything even tangentially relate

by coldpie 6mo ago

> I get a feeling from overall anti-AI sentiment online that a lot of people feel they're entitled to 100% of value created by anything even tangentially related to their person Rather, I don't like that the terms I released my work under aren't being respected. I believe LLMs are derivative works of the pieces they are trained on. I spent more than ten years working on open source code, and now the models that were trained on my GPL'd code are being used to make proprietary code against the terms of the license. I find this reprehensible. While it wasn't an explicit term of release, generally I did not expect anyone to get any kind of financial value from the blog posts I wrote. I just wrote them for fun & maybe others would find them interesting. Now, LLMs have been trained on my blog posts and are generating financial value for some of the worst human beings on the planet who are using their money to murder, demean, and maim other humans. I now know that blog posts I wrote for fun are putting money in some sociopath's bank account, and the GPL'd code I wrote is being used to create software to exploit me & other users. If I continue to create things publicly, it will be used against me and other people, and there's nothing I can do to stop it except to stop creating things. It's all very disrespectful & demoralizing.

martin-t 6mo ago
I am in exactly the same boat, down to the ~10 years. Only difference is I ended up picking AGPL for my later works. Like it made a difference... The whole situation disgusts me. - They expect me to pay for access to my own stolen code. - Arguing stealing should be legal because China does it and if US companies don't, they'll be left behind. - People like the poster you're replying to who argue you're not entitled to 100% of the value you create - completely ignoring that the value will go to some-one and that some-one is already much richer than any of us and getting richer faster while providing less value, if any. Honestly, this makes me wanna track these people down just to find out if they're also in the owner class and are just secretly laughing at us while pretending "we're all equal" or if they're workers who genuinely don't understand how much they're being exploited and how much worse it's gonna get. - People don't give a fuck. Colleagues happily using "AI" because it "saves time", not realizing if this continues, we'll all be without jobs and the only way this was possible was by stealing from each other and most of us being OK with it. Honestly, I am hoping for a revolution. A proper one, with guns if need be, but most importantly, where people get what they deserve in full. Last time this happened was during the second industrial revolution, so many people got fucked so hard, entire countries turned to communism. That was a bad idea but we can do better. It's not (just) about how owns the means of production but who owns the product. Even if "AI" turns into actual AI, as long as it's built on top of our work, we should own it - that means both controlling it and getting paid proportionally to our contribution. The currently rich people can negotiate what fraction they get paid if they show us they're providing value. Of course, only after we get back what they stole and unless they end up executed. The value of a human life is apparently $7.5M so anybody who steals more than that should logically get a death sentence. But none of this will happen, people are too stupid and will get manipulated by a charismatic liar like every single time before.
- joquarky 6mo ago
  How did they steal your code? Don't you have backups?
  - martin-t 6mo ago
    They used it against my consent. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=steal+meaning&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=steal+meaning&ia=web
  - martin-t 6mo ago
    What do you think is the end state? What will society look like 5 or 15 years down the line if somebody creates actual AGI, according to you?
robocat 6mo ago
You desire a sharing community, but the takers/defectors are destroying that community. Copyleft attempts to create a pool of code that forces sharing. But it broadly fails because you simply can't force antisocial people to be good sharers (plus source code usually isn't as valuable as we hope). With any gifting/sharing, you have to accept that some of it will be abused. It is hard to filter for only community minded people who don't greedily abuse, and ideally who give freely. I don't believe my circle of friends are becoming more selfish. I'm unsure what I would say about the rest of the world.
thedevilslawyer 6mo ago
> I believe LLMs are derivative works of the pieces they are trained on That's your opinion with 0 legal backing. IMO, calling them derivative is untenable logically for anyone with some understanding of LLM/transformer architecture.

by coldpie 6mo ago

martin-t 6mo ago

I am in exactly the same boat, down to the ~10 years. Only difference is I ended up picking AGPL for my later works. Like it made a difference... The whole situation disgusts me. - They expect me to pay for access to my own stolen code. - Arguing stealing should be legal because China does it and if US companies don't, they'll be left behind. - People like the poster you're replying to who argue you're not entitled to 100% of the value you create - completely ignoring that the value will go to some-one and that some-one is already much richer than any of us and getting richer faster while providing less value, if any. Honestly, this makes me wanna track these people down just to find out if they're also in the owner class and are just secretly laughing at us while pretending "we're all equal" or if they're workers who genuinely don't understand how much they're being exploited and how much worse it's gonna get. - People don't give a fuck. Colleagues happily using "AI" because it "saves time", not realizing if this continues, we'll all be without jobs and the only way this was possible was by stealing from each other and most of us being OK with it. Honestly, I am hoping for a revolution. A proper one, with guns if need be, but most importantly, where people get what they deserve in full. Last time this happened was during the second industrial revolution, so many people got fucked so hard, entire countries turned to communism. That was a bad idea but we can do better. It's not (just) about how owns the means of production but who owns the product. Even if "AI" turns into actual AI, as long as it's built on top of our work, we should own it - that means both controlling it and getting paid proportionally to our contribution. The currently rich people can negotiate what fraction they get paid if they show us they're providing value. Of course, only after we get back what they stole and unless they end up executed. The value of a human life is apparently $7.5M so anybody who steals more than that should logically get a death sentence. But none of this will happen, people are too stupid and will get manipulated by a charismatic liar like every single time before.

joquarky 6mo ago
How did they steal your code? Don't you have backups?
- martin-t 6mo ago
  They used it against my consent. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=steal+meaning&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=steal+meaning&ia=web
- martin-t 6mo ago
  What do you think is the end state? What will society look like 5 or 15 years down the line if somebody creates actual AGI, according to you?

robocat 6mo ago

You desire a sharing community, but the takers/defectors are destroying that community. Copyleft attempts to create a pool of code that forces sharing. But it broadly fails because you simply can't force antisocial people to be good sharers (plus source code usually isn't as valuable as we hope). With any gifting/sharing, you have to accept that some of it will be abused. It is hard to filter for only community minded people who don't greedily abuse, and ideally who give freely. I don't believe my circle of friends are becoming more selfish. I'm unsure what I would say about the rest of the world.

thedevilslawyer 6mo ago

> I believe LLMs are derivative works of the pieces they are trained on That's your opinion with 0 legal backing. IMO, calling them derivative is untenable logically for anyone with some understanding of LLM/transformer architecture.