3 ms·

I think that’s why the author was comparing to to a finished 3D game.

hombre_fatal 7mo ago
I guess because you see 3D stuff in a 3D game instead of text, people assume that it must be the most complex thing in software? Or because you solve hard math problems in 3D, those functions are gonna be the most loc? It's a completely different domain, e.g. very different integration surface area and abstractions. Claude Code's source is dumped online so there's probably a more concrete analysis to be had than "that sounds like too many loc".
- sarchertech 7mo ago
  It is a different domain but that wasn’t your argument. Your argument was that someone was comparing it to a POC when in fact they were comparing to a finished product. Also a AAA game (with the engine) with physics, networking, and rendering code is up there in terms of the most complex pieces of software.
  - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
    They just claimed that you can build a 3D game in 500k loc, thus Claude Code shouldn't use so many loc. They/you didn't render the argument for that. For example, without looking at the code, the superstition also works in the opposite direction: Claude Code is an interface to using AI to do any computer task while a 3D game just lets you shoot some bad guys, so surely the 3D game must be done in fewer loc. That's equally unsatisfying. You'd have to be more concrete than "sounds like a lot".
    - troupo 7mo ago
      > Claude Code is an interface to using AI to do any computer task Claude Code is quite literally a wrapper around a few APIs. At one point it needed 68GB of RAM to run and requires 11ms to "lay a scene graph" to display a few hundred characters on screen. All links here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47598488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47598488 > while a 3D game just lets you shoot some bad guys, so surely the 3D game must be done in fewer loc. Yes, most games should be done in fewer loc
      - anthk 7mo ago
        I could run a text adventure with a Zmachine emulator under a 6502 based machine and 48k of RAM, with Ozmoo you can play games like Tristam Island. On a Commodore 64, or an Apple II for you US commenters. I repeat the game it's being emulated in a simple computer with barely more processing power than a current keyboard controller. As the ZMachine interpreter (V3 games at least, enough for the mentioned example), even a Game Boy used to play Pokemon Red/Blue -and Crystal/Sylver/Blue, just slightly better specs than the OG GB- can run Tristam Island with keypad based input picking both selected words from the text or letter by letter as when you name a character in an RPG. A damn Game Boy, a pocket console from 1989. Not straightly running a game, again. Emulating a simple text computer -the virtual machine- to play it. No slowdowns, no-nothing, and you can save the game (the interpreter status) in a battery backed cartridge, such as the Everdrive. Everything under... 128k. Claude Code and the rest of 'examples' it's what happens when trade programmers call themselves 'engineers' without even a CS degree.
      - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
        Your claim was that they could implement the same app in 50k lines of code. A cursory glance at the codebase shows that it's not just a wrapper around a few APIs.
        mpalmer 7mo ago
        Yes, because they've vibed it into phenomenally unnecessary complexity. The mistake you continually make in this thread is to look at complexity and see something that is de facto praiseworthy and impressive. It is not.
        hombre_fatal 7mo ago
        [dead]
    - lelanthran 7mo ago
      > Claude Code is an interface to using AI to do any computer task Shouldn't interfaces be smaller than the implementation?
      - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
        No. We aren't talking about .h vs .c files nor PL interfaces. A GUI/client can be arbitrarily more or less complex than the things it's GUI'ing.
        lelanthran 7mo ago
        > A GUI/client can be arbitrarily more or less complex than the things it's GUI'ing. If it's an interface to ffmpeg, then sure, the GUI could be extremely complicated code. But that's not what we are talking about, is it? We are talking about an interface to a chatbot that can accept and return chats, accept and return files, and run a selection of internal commands (which include invoking itself recursively). The interface to this chatbot that has a settings entry for "personality" is still only going to map that to one of a small number of chatbot inputs. Same with basically anything else (read the skills file, etc). I dunno... maybe 500kSloC for a fancy IRC client is the going rate, but the last time I wrote an interface to a chat client, it was barely 10k lines, not counting the lib*.so that the the program called to interact with the chatbot, with said chatbot supporting file uploads and '/' commands.
        fragmede 7mo ago
        Did your IRC client have a sandbox that let other users run commands on your box? I don't think there's enough LoC in the world before I'd let that happen!

I guess because you see 3D stuff in a 3D game instead of text, people assume that it must be the most complex thing in software? Or because you solve hard math problems in 3D, those functions are gonna be the most loc? It's a completely different domain, e.g. very different integration surface area and abstractions. Claude Code's source is dumped online so there's probably a more concrete analysis to be had than "that sounds like too many loc".

sarchertech 7mo ago
It is a different domain but that wasn’t your argument. Your argument was that someone was comparing it to a POC when in fact they were comparing to a finished product. Also a AAA game (with the engine) with physics, networking, and rendering code is up there in terms of the most complex pieces of software.
- hombre_fatal 7mo ago
  They just claimed that you can build a 3D game in 500k loc, thus Claude Code shouldn't use so many loc. They/you didn't render the argument for that. For example, without looking at the code, the superstition also works in the opposite direction: Claude Code is an interface to using AI to do any computer task while a 3D game just lets you shoot some bad guys, so surely the 3D game must be done in fewer loc. That's equally unsatisfying. You'd have to be more concrete than "sounds like a lot".
  - troupo 7mo ago
    > Claude Code is an interface to using AI to do any computer task Claude Code is quite literally a wrapper around a few APIs. At one point it needed 68GB of RAM to run and requires 11ms to "lay a scene graph" to display a few hundred characters on screen. All links here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47598488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47598488 > while a 3D game just lets you shoot some bad guys, so surely the 3D game must be done in fewer loc. Yes, most games should be done in fewer loc
    - anthk 7mo ago
      I could run a text adventure with a Zmachine emulator under a 6502 based machine and 48k of RAM, with Ozmoo you can play games like Tristam Island. On a Commodore 64, or an Apple II for you US commenters. I repeat the game it's being emulated in a simple computer with barely more processing power than a current keyboard controller. As the ZMachine interpreter (V3 games at least, enough for the mentioned example), even a Game Boy used to play Pokemon Red/Blue -and Crystal/Sylver/Blue, just slightly better specs than the OG GB- can run Tristam Island with keypad based input picking both selected words from the text or letter by letter as when you name a character in an RPG. A damn Game Boy, a pocket console from 1989. Not straightly running a game, again. Emulating a simple text computer -the virtual machine- to play it. No slowdowns, no-nothing, and you can save the game (the interpreter status) in a battery backed cartridge, such as the Everdrive. Everything under... 128k. Claude Code and the rest of 'examples' it's what happens when trade programmers call themselves 'engineers' without even a CS degree.
    - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
      Your claim was that they could implement the same app in 50k lines of code. A cursory glance at the codebase shows that it's not just a wrapper around a few APIs.
      - mpalmer 7mo ago
        Yes, because they've vibed it into phenomenally unnecessary complexity. The mistake you continually make in this thread is to look at complexity and see something that is de facto praiseworthy and impressive. It is not.
        hombre_fatal 7mo ago
        [dead]
  - lelanthran 7mo ago
    > Claude Code is an interface to using AI to do any computer task Shouldn't interfaces be smaller than the implementation?
    - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
      No. We aren't talking about .h vs .c files nor PL interfaces. A GUI/client can be arbitrarily more or less complex than the things it's GUI'ing.
      - lelanthran 7mo ago
        > A GUI/client can be arbitrarily more or less complex than the things it's GUI'ing. If it's an interface to ffmpeg, then sure, the GUI could be extremely complicated code. But that's not what we are talking about, is it? We are talking about an interface to a chatbot that can accept and return chats, accept and return files, and run a selection of internal commands (which include invoking itself recursively). The interface to this chatbot that has a settings entry for "personality" is still only going to map that to one of a small number of chatbot inputs. Same with basically anything else (read the skills file, etc). I dunno... maybe 500kSloC for a fancy IRC client is the going rate, but the last time I wrote an interface to a chat client, it was barely 10k lines, not counting the lib*.so that the the program called to interact with the chatbot, with said chatbot supporting file uploads and '/' commands.
        fragmede 7mo ago
        Did your IRC client have a sandbox that let other users run commands on your box? I don't think there's enough LoC in the world before I'd let that happen!