4 ms·

> They are going to be out of date whenever a standard changes (HTML, etc.) You might want to elaborate on the "etc.", since HTML updates are glacial.

by zymhan 6mo ago

mrits 6mo ago
glaciers change faster than HTML
- zymhan 6mo ago
  Oof, I honestly hadn't considered that.
- Yokohiii 6mo ago
  because there is more human effort
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
rhdunn 6mo ago
The HTML "Living Standard" is constantly updated [1-6]. The PNG spec [7] has been updated several times in 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2025. The XPath spec [8] has multiple versions: 1.0 (1999), 2.0 (2007), 3.0 (2014), and 3.1 (2017), with 4.0 in development. The RDF spec [9] has multiple versions: 1.0 (2004), and 1.1 (2014). Plus the related specs and their associated versions. The schema.org metadata standard [10] is under active development and is currently on version 30. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/selectedcontent https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... (New) [2] https://web.dev/baseline/2025 https://web.dev/baseline/2025 -- popover API, plain text content editable, etc. [3] https://web.dev/baseline/2024 https://web.dev/baseline/2024 -- exclusive accordions, declarative shadow root DOM [4] https://web.dev/baseline/2023 https://web.dev/baseline/2023 -- inert attribute, lazy loading iframes [5] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/search https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... (Baseline 2023) [6] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/details https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... (2020) [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNG [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPath [9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework [10] https://schema.org/ https://schema.org/
- cpill 6mo ago
  please! nobody uses Xpath (coz json killed XML), it RDF (semantic web never happened, and one ever 10years is not fast), schema.org (again, nobody cares), PNG: no change in the last 26 years, not fast. the HTML "living standard" :D completely optional and hence not a standard but definition.
  - yusaydat 6mo ago
    Xpath is still used for e2e tests and things like scraping. Especially when there aren't better selectors available.
    - thomasmg 6mo ago
      The point is that you don't need the very latest version. The 20 years old version is enough.
      - rhdunn 6mo ago
        XPath 1.0 is a pain to write queries for. XPath 2.0 adds features that make it easier to write queries. XPath 3.1 adds support for maps, arrays, and JSON. And the default Python XPath support is severely limited, not even a full 1.0 implementation. You can't use the Python XPath support to do things like `element[contains(@attribute, 'value')]` so you need to include an external library to implement XPath.
        thomasmg 6mo ago
        The problem of XPath 3.1 is that it is very complex [1] - this is a long page. Compared to the 1.0 spec, it is just too complex in my view. For the open source project I'm working on, I never felt that the "old" XPath version is painful. I think simplicity is better. That's why Json is used nowadays, and XML is not. [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/ https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/ [2] https://jackrabbit.apache.org/oak/docs/query/grammar-xpath.html https://jackrabbit.apache.org/oak/docs/query/grammar-xpath.h...
  - 6mo ago

> They are going to be out of date whenever a standard changes (HTML, etc.) You might want to elaborate on the "etc.", since HTML updates are glacial.

by zymhan 6mo ago

> They are going to be out of date whenever a standard changes (HTML, etc.) You might want to elaborate on the "etc.", since HTML updates are glacial.

mrits 6mo ago

glaciers change faster than HTML

zymhan 6mo ago
Oof, I honestly hadn't considered that.
Yokohiii 6mo ago
because there is more human effort

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

rhdunn 6mo ago

The HTML "Living Standard" is constantly updated [1-6]. The PNG spec [7] has been updated several times in 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2025. The XPath spec [8] has multiple versions: 1.0 (1999), 2.0 (2007), 3.0 (2014), and 3.1 (2017), with 4.0 in development. The RDF spec [9] has multiple versions: 1.0 (2004), and 1.1 (2014). Plus the related specs and their associated versions. The schema.org metadata standard [10] is under active development and is currently on version 30. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/selectedcontent https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... (New) [2] https://web.dev/baseline/2025 https://web.dev/baseline/2025 -- popover API, plain text content editable, etc. [3] https://web.dev/baseline/2024 https://web.dev/baseline/2024 -- exclusive accordions, declarative shadow root DOM [4] https://web.dev/baseline/2023 https://web.dev/baseline/2023 -- inert attribute, lazy loading iframes [5] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/search https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... (Baseline 2023) [6] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/details https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... (2020) [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNG [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPath [9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_Description_Framework [10] https://schema.org/ https://schema.org/

cpill 6mo ago
please! nobody uses Xpath (coz json killed XML), it RDF (semantic web never happened, and one ever 10years is not fast), schema.org (again, nobody cares), PNG: no change in the last 26 years, not fast. the HTML "living standard" :D completely optional and hence not a standard but definition.
- yusaydat 6mo ago
  Xpath is still used for e2e tests and things like scraping. Especially when there aren't better selectors available.
  - thomasmg 6mo ago
    The point is that you don't need the very latest version. The 20 years old version is enough.
    - rhdunn 6mo ago
      XPath 1.0 is a pain to write queries for. XPath 2.0 adds features that make it easier to write queries. XPath 3.1 adds support for maps, arrays, and JSON. And the default Python XPath support is severely limited, not even a full 1.0 implementation. You can't use the Python XPath support to do things like `element[contains(@attribute, 'value')]` so you need to include an external library to implement XPath.
      - thomasmg 6mo ago
        The problem of XPath 3.1 is that it is very complex [1] - this is a long page. Compared to the 1.0 spec, it is just too complex in my view. For the open source project I'm working on, I never felt that the "old" XPath version is painful. I think simplicity is better. That's why Json is used nowadays, and XML is not. [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/ https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-31/ [2] https://jackrabbit.apache.org/oak/docs/query/grammar-xpath.html https://jackrabbit.apache.org/oak/docs/query/grammar-xpath.h...
- 6mo ago