6 ms·

The Android verification is such a broken experience. Recently I decided to purchase a dev account for my company, so far: 1) Provided my company DUNS number e

by mrtksn 7mo ago

The Android verification is such a broken experience. Recently I decided to purchase a dev account for my company, so far: 1) Provided my company DUNS number etc. once to create the payment profile. I did this some times ago, don’t remember the details but it was an involved verification process and it is marked as verified business payment profile. 2) Later on the payment step verified myself with a passport and bank statement to be able to actually pay with a proper HSBC bank card. Not shady pre-paid card or something, those are not accepted anyway. 3) After I paid I was told that now I need to verify my identity once more but this time with the passport and the incorporation certificate or some other company document. fingers crossed that in few days it will be verified. While waiting, it tells me that there are still website and email verification to do once the previous step is done. I already verified my e-mail a few times before paying. It’s painful, slow and annoying because if you fail at a step(i.e. needs verification that takes days and you are told about it at the payment step) you have to start again with the forms. I just remembered why I never use Android. It seems like no one owns the process and as a result you get unpolished shitty experience that fulfills the requirements of god knows how many people who work in the same company but don’t talk to each other.

mcsniff 7mo ago
What you're describing is not "broken", it's the process and it appears it hasn't even failed for you. My experience with getting a verified "business" developer account from Google mirrors the experience as getting one from Apple, except it's a one-time fee and much less than Apple. Yes there are hoops to jump through, identification usually requires some hoops, but pretty it's straightforward. I am not commenting on the requirements of these hoops, yes, it's BS that they exist but it's their platform so it's their rules. What type of "experience" are you expecting to have anyway?
- mrtksn 7mo ago
  With Apple I filled the forms, accepted the agreements, entered the DUNS and paid with a card on my name and that was it. How does that mirror uploading my passport many times, entering company details many times, typing my e-mail and phone numbers many times both because I had to start over and because I was asked many times even if I provided these some steps back? Now I paid and waiting, hopefully I will later be verifying my e-mail address or something that I verified a few times prior. > What type of "experience" are you expecting to have anyway? The Apple experience. An experience that is well thought and streamlined, that doesn’t keep me entering the same information over and over again. I don’t mind paying a little more for well designed products. The $75 difference is nothing to justify this charade, I don’t think that that Google was short of $75 and designed this low quality experience, I think it’s engraver in their DNA.
  - Gander5739 7mo ago
    Other people seem to have different experiences: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47582372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47582372
- debazel 7mo ago
  > What type of "experience" are you expecting to have anyway? Being told upfront what is required to complete the process so you don't have to start over again multiple times?
- 63stack 7mo ago
  It's not broken, it's the process ??? What would you consider broken?
hnburnsy 7mo ago
Can you pay with Google Play GC or Google Play points, and if not, why not?
- mrtksn 7mo ago
  I believe you can’t. BTW Apple allows you to pay for a developer account with in app purchase from the developer app on your iPhone. Still has limitations and you may be rejected depending on your payment method and some other factors but even the fact that it’s possible makes it 1000 better than Google’s way of handling it.
fc417fc802 7mo ago
If this is a business account why do they want your passport? And why are you paying with a personal bank card rather than a business one? Or do I misunderstand?
- __float 7mo ago
  They may want proof that you, the human filling out this form, are authorized to publish apps, communications, etc. as the company you say you represent.
  - fc417fc802 7mo ago
    How does a passport solve that? Most small private companies are entirely opaque. A government ID doesn't help you determine authorization. It won't even help you determine ownership since anyone doing things sensibly will be using a registered agent to hold the company on his behalf. The correct approach here (AFAIK) is to punt the trust decision to the bank by requiring payment with a method that you can confidently trace to the company.
    - kube-system 7mo ago
      Yeah I would imagine that the value the get out of a passport is not anything to do with validating a company (they’re cheap and easy to make anyway) but validating the person (which is not a throwaway entity)
      - fc417fc802 7mo ago
        Fair point. However that invites those bad scenarios where someone gets blacklisted by BigTech in some manner, later gets hired by a small business, the new employer adds an association to the blacklisted account, and suddenly the company app is banned from the app store seemingly without reason. At least a few such stories have appeared on HN over the years. I feel like pay to play ought to be sufficient because in addition to being a barrier to entry it also provides funds for moderation efforts.
lm411 7mo ago
The whole Google Play experience is awful. Recent things I've had to do: 1) Re-submit an app after it was rejected and labelled a gambling app (it wasn't even close - a 15 second look by a real human would have seen that. This one was even appealed and the support was utterly useless. I ended up changing one word and re-submitting the app, approved no problem. 2) An existing app, in the Play store for years but a nice app - only about 500 installs. I had to submit a new version for no reason whatsoever... Except to keep the customers developer account active. Those are just issues I've dealt with in the last month or two. Every single time, Google Support is completely useless - including the appeals process, which is an absolute joke.
- umvi 7mo ago
  Not to mention if you made one app in college and then didn't keep up with the SDK updates, Google perma-closes the entire Play account such that the only way to publish a new app is by creating a brand new gmail account
  - lm411 7mo ago
    Yeah the SDK updates... For sure. Another pain in the ass.
  - Dwedit 7mo ago
    Forcing people to keep up with SDK updates is a bad thing in itself. Let people target the earliest possible feature set and make the app run on as many phones as possible rather than showing scary messages to people due to targeting an older API.
    - AussieWog93 7mo ago
      I think the problem is that older SDK versions allowed you to do things like scan local WiFi names to get location data, without requiring the location permission. So bad actors would just target lower SDK versions and ignore the privacy improvements
heyethan 7mo ago
[flagged]
- intended 7mo ago
  You should see the account recovery workflows.
hansvm 7mo ago
That sounds a lot like my experience as an Apple Developer too, with the added bonus (unclear from your description if you experienced this too) that they took my money before the verification process was finished and wouldn't refund it once their AI couldn't connect my face to my ID and wouldn't let me connect with a real person (the first dozen times were on them, but after that it was maybe my fault for including a middle finger in the photographs). Is there a way around this shitocracy?
- cuu508 7mo ago
  > Is there a way around this shitocracy? Refuse to play. Switch to technologoy that the shitocracy has not gotten around to yet, or, eventually, pick up woodworking.
  - ozim 7mo ago
    Do what everyone is doing a web app.
  - kaizenb 7mo ago
    Exactly. This is why I love building web apps, shipping features easily without needing any one's approval.
  - Freak_NL 7mo ago
    I am doing leatherworking as well as woodworking. No idea if it is possible to actually make money with this¹, but damned if I'm not giving it a go just to have skills in an area where AI is not a threat for the coming decade. At the very least these crafts allow me to make things which do not exist and cannot be purchased off the shelf. 1: I mean, it is, certainly. I'm just not sure if I can make money by making leather gear.
- _66o 7mo ago
  Going through hell with Apple Developer too. I didn't have to do much in terms of verification (probably because I created an account as an individual) but app submission is another story: - first time I got rejected for mentioning a name of a third party in my app description. The app description said: DISCLAIMER: not affiliated with xxx - after fixing the app description I got rejected for using my app name(?!), multiple back and forths with the reviewer got me nowhere, they just copy pasted the same response not addressing my messages at all - filled the app store review board appeal, it's been 5 days and I've got no response. At this point I'm seriously considering rewriting the app for MacOS and distributing myself. I can't imagine going through all of this with every app update, it's beyond ridiculous.
hbn 7mo ago
I released an Android app to the Play Store ~10 years ago and the most important advice people were always sounding alarms about online in Android dev communities was to not publish under your real Google account you care about, because it's not unlikely a bot will ban your entire account because of some vague infraction that's near impossible to appeal. Google seems to actively hate people who develop for their platforms. Which I don't believe is a good move with their current hand, where young people in wealthy countries (i.e. the future of people who will spend money on apps) are something like 90% iPhone users these days.

by mrtksn 7mo ago

mcsniff 7mo ago

What you're describing is not "broken", it's the process and it appears it hasn't even failed for you. My experience with getting a verified "business" developer account from Google mirrors the experience as getting one from Apple, except it's a one-time fee and much less than Apple. Yes there are hoops to jump through, identification usually requires some hoops, but pretty it's straightforward. I am not commenting on the requirements of these hoops, yes, it's BS that they exist but it's their platform so it's their rules. What type of "experience" are you expecting to have anyway?

mrtksn 7mo ago
With Apple I filled the forms, accepted the agreements, entered the DUNS and paid with a card on my name and that was it. How does that mirror uploading my passport many times, entering company details many times, typing my e-mail and phone numbers many times both because I had to start over and because I was asked many times even if I provided these some steps back? Now I paid and waiting, hopefully I will later be verifying my e-mail address or something that I verified a few times prior. > What type of "experience" are you expecting to have anyway? The Apple experience. An experience that is well thought and streamlined, that doesn’t keep me entering the same information over and over again. I don’t mind paying a little more for well designed products. The $75 difference is nothing to justify this charade, I don’t think that that Google was short of $75 and designed this low quality experience, I think it’s engraver in their DNA.
- Gander5739 7mo ago
  Other people seem to have different experiences: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47582372 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47582372
debazel 7mo ago
> What type of "experience" are you expecting to have anyway? Being told upfront what is required to complete the process so you don't have to start over again multiple times?
63stack 7mo ago
It's not broken, it's the process ??? What would you consider broken?

hnburnsy 7mo ago

Can you pay with Google Play GC or Google Play points, and if not, why not?

mrtksn 7mo ago
I believe you can’t. BTW Apple allows you to pay for a developer account with in app purchase from the developer app on your iPhone. Still has limitations and you may be rejected depending on your payment method and some other factors but even the fact that it’s possible makes it 1000 better than Google’s way of handling it.

fc417fc802 7mo ago

If this is a business account why do they want your passport? And why are you paying with a personal bank card rather than a business one? Or do I misunderstand?

__float 7mo ago
They may want proof that you, the human filling out this form, are authorized to publish apps, communications, etc. as the company you say you represent.
- fc417fc802 7mo ago
  How does a passport solve that? Most small private companies are entirely opaque. A government ID doesn't help you determine authorization. It won't even help you determine ownership since anyone doing things sensibly will be using a registered agent to hold the company on his behalf. The correct approach here (AFAIK) is to punt the trust decision to the bank by requiring payment with a method that you can confidently trace to the company.
  - kube-system 7mo ago
    Yeah I would imagine that the value the get out of a passport is not anything to do with validating a company (they’re cheap and easy to make anyway) but validating the person (which is not a throwaway entity)
    - fc417fc802 7mo ago
      Fair point. However that invites those bad scenarios where someone gets blacklisted by BigTech in some manner, later gets hired by a small business, the new employer adds an association to the blacklisted account, and suddenly the company app is banned from the app store seemingly without reason. At least a few such stories have appeared on HN over the years. I feel like pay to play ought to be sufficient because in addition to being a barrier to entry it also provides funds for moderation efforts.

lm411 7mo ago

The whole Google Play experience is awful. Recent things I've had to do: 1) Re-submit an app after it was rejected and labelled a gambling app (it wasn't even close - a 15 second look by a real human would have seen that. This one was even appealed and the support was utterly useless. I ended up changing one word and re-submitting the app, approved no problem. 2) An existing app, in the Play store for years but a nice app - only about 500 installs. I had to submit a new version for no reason whatsoever... Except to keep the customers developer account active. Those are just issues I've dealt with in the last month or two. Every single time, Google Support is completely useless - including the appeals process, which is an absolute joke.

umvi 7mo ago
Not to mention if you made one app in college and then didn't keep up with the SDK updates, Google perma-closes the entire Play account such that the only way to publish a new app is by creating a brand new gmail account
- lm411 7mo ago
  Yeah the SDK updates... For sure. Another pain in the ass.
- Dwedit 7mo ago
  Forcing people to keep up with SDK updates is a bad thing in itself. Let people target the earliest possible feature set and make the app run on as many phones as possible rather than showing scary messages to people due to targeting an older API.
  - AussieWog93 7mo ago
    I think the problem is that older SDK versions allowed you to do things like scan local WiFi names to get location data, without requiring the location permission. So bad actors would just target lower SDK versions and ignore the privacy improvements

heyethan 7mo ago

[flagged]

intended 7mo ago
You should see the account recovery workflows.

hansvm 7mo ago

That sounds a lot like my experience as an Apple Developer too, with the added bonus (unclear from your description if you experienced this too) that they took my money before the verification process was finished and wouldn't refund it once their AI couldn't connect my face to my ID and wouldn't let me connect with a real person (the first dozen times were on them, but after that it was maybe my fault for including a middle finger in the photographs). Is there a way around this shitocracy?

cuu508 7mo ago
> Is there a way around this shitocracy? Refuse to play. Switch to technologoy that the shitocracy has not gotten around to yet, or, eventually, pick up woodworking.
- ozim 7mo ago
  Do what everyone is doing a web app.
- kaizenb 7mo ago
  Exactly. This is why I love building web apps, shipping features easily without needing any one's approval.
- Freak_NL 7mo ago
  I am doing leatherworking as well as woodworking. No idea if it is possible to actually make money with this¹, but damned if I'm not giving it a go just to have skills in an area where AI is not a threat for the coming decade. At the very least these crafts allow me to make things which do not exist and cannot be purchased off the shelf. 1: I mean, it is, certainly. I'm just not sure if I can make money by making leather gear.
_66o 7mo ago
Going through hell with Apple Developer too. I didn't have to do much in terms of verification (probably because I created an account as an individual) but app submission is another story: - first time I got rejected for mentioning a name of a third party in my app description. The app description said: DISCLAIMER: not affiliated with xxx - after fixing the app description I got rejected for using my app name(?!), multiple back and forths with the reviewer got me nowhere, they just copy pasted the same response not addressing my messages at all - filled the app store review board appeal, it's been 5 days and I've got no response. At this point I'm seriously considering rewriting the app for MacOS and distributing myself. I can't imagine going through all of this with every app update, it's beyond ridiculous.

hbn 7mo ago

I released an Android app to the Play Store ~10 years ago and the most important advice people were always sounding alarms about online in Android dev communities was to not publish under your real Google account you care about, because it's not unlikely a bot will ban your entire account because of some vague infraction that's near impossible to appeal. Google seems to actively hate people who develop for their platforms. Which I don't believe is a good move with their current hand, where young people in wealthy countries (i.e. the future of people who will spend money on apps) are something like 90% iPhone users these days.