3 ms·

If you aren't a slave to your car, you likely live in a walkable area where the cost of a 4-bedroom apartment or house is going to be pretty high. I'm not sayin

by throwway120385 7mo ago

If you aren't a slave to your car, you likely live in a walkable area where the cost of a 4-bedroom apartment or house is going to be pretty high. I'm not saying you can't raise kids in a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment, and when I lived in apartments many families had kids in a 1-bedroom apartment, but it's very tight and many people would consider it a significant hardship for both the kids and the parents. I would also add as a car slave that the kinds of cars large enough to fit the kinds of car seats marketed in the US are tens of thousands more than a compact or mid-size sedan, and that in a mid-size sedan having a car seat in the rear-facing configuration significantly constrains how far back you can put the passenger or driver seat. This is true even for the narrower seats that are designed for three-across seating. And worse, you might not have the latch system or an appropriate kind of seat belt on that third seat.

mothballed 7mo ago
Or you are poor enough you get paid to pop out more kids and it's cheaper to uber twice a month to the grocery store because you have no job for which you'd need a car nor the cash to buy it.
mullingitover 7mo ago
> If you aren't a slave to your car, you likely live in a walkable area where the cost of a 4-bedroom apartment or house is going to be pretty high. Or you're one of the millions of people who live in developing countries which have low cost of living and low housing costs. Coincidentally this group has very high birth rates.
- Earw0rm 7mo ago
  Also, socially conservative, multi-generational households (sharing labour and childcare between women relatives), less expectation for mothers of young kids to be away from the home, and a much lower expectation of what "housing" means in terms of both building quality and the amount of living space per person.
  - orthoxerox 7mo ago
    Who expects mothers of young kids in the US to be away from the home?
    - nehal3m 7mo ago
      The economy
    - Earw0rm 7mo ago
      Work and wider social participation, and a sprawling suburban geography that has people living far from friends and family. The alternative - small, crowded population centres where everyone knows everyone and three, even four generations live in the same household can of course be limiting, even suffocating. But there's a reason why, for all that the 1950s autonomous nuclear family is held up as some kind of ideal by tradwife fetishists, it's also the milieu in which Valium and sleeping pills became popularised.
    - alsetmusic 7mo ago
      > Who expects mothers of young kids in the US to be away from the home? Where in the USA do you live where I can support my wife and kids on one income? We'll move immediately.
      - orthoxerox 7mo ago
        Ask single mothers.
      - stephenbez 7mo ago
        A relative of mine bought a house in central Illinois for $90k a few years ago. She's a single mom and works as a bank teller. There are plenty of places that can be afforded on a single income if you work in tech and can work remotely. Examples: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10-Regina-Dr-Paris-IL-61944/115609836_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10-Regina-Dr-Paris-IL-619... https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/804-N-Walnut-St-Pontiac-IL-61764/105627788_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/804-N-Walnut-St-Pontiac-I...
xboxnolifes 7mo ago
A __3-bedroom apartment__ is considered very tight for raising kids? How many bedrooms do you need to raise kids?
- kelnos 7mo ago
  It depends on how many kids you have, no? I did know other kids when I was growing up who shared a room with one or more siblings, but some parents want to be able to give each child their own bedroom. So a three-bedroom apartment might not be enough if you have three kids.
- tempay 7mo ago
  Raising one child is fine, raise two or three means sharing rooms not having a guest room (e.g. relatives can't stay easily) or an at-home office space. It's not that you can't, it's just that it's not the standard of living most western people expect.
- tialaramex 7mo ago
  If you make kids share a bedroom it drastically decreases the margin for tension between children because they don't have anywhere else. That can work, of course, but it might not and too fucking late for the kids if it doesn't. That can mean physical abuse, but it can mean things like one kid loves loud music and the other wants to read quietly alone, or their sleep schedules naturally don't align well - if you were an adult house share you'd say well, we're just incompatible, it's nobody's fault, I'll move out, but kids can't do that, they are stuck with the situation their parents created and it's all they know. My mother - I found out years after I'd left home - was worried that I resented the fact I had a small bedroom while my younger sister got a larger one - but in reality I didn't care at all, she's an artist, she makes stuff which actually exists, of course she needs space; I write software, which conveniently takes up no space, whereas if I'd had to share with her that would be extremely problematic and wouldn't have gone well. I could be in my tiny room and that was enough.
  - alsetmusic 7mo ago
    Some friends were able to provide separate bedrooms to their sons last year. The older one already has a man-shaped face and body (still an adolescent voice and personality, but that's sometimes how that goes). I really couldn't believe it when I found out. I grew up privileged and had my own space, but a shared space between siblings was normalized. But going into high school with that constraint, it seems stifling. I really have to wonder what effects that lack of privacy / autonomy has on a developing mind. There are probably studies but it's not something I'm about to research.
justonceokay 7mo ago
Only on very modern times would you feel the need to have that many bedrooms for 3 kids. Of course that’s because you can’t banish the kids from the house until sunset anymore
- brailsafe 7mo ago
  Even two bedrooms in my city are ~$750k+
angmarsbane 6mo ago
This is IF you can find a 3 or 4 bedroom apartment in an American city. The job centers mostly build studios, 1 and 2 bedrooms if they build anything at all.

mothballed 7mo ago

Or you are poor enough you get paid to pop out more kids and it's cheaper to uber twice a month to the grocery store because you have no job for which you'd need a car nor the cash to buy it.

mullingitover 7mo ago

> If you aren't a slave to your car, you likely live in a walkable area where the cost of a 4-bedroom apartment or house is going to be pretty high. Or you're one of the millions of people who live in developing countries which have low cost of living and low housing costs. Coincidentally this group has very high birth rates.

Earw0rm 7mo ago
Also, socially conservative, multi-generational households (sharing labour and childcare between women relatives), less expectation for mothers of young kids to be away from the home, and a much lower expectation of what "housing" means in terms of both building quality and the amount of living space per person.
- orthoxerox 7mo ago
  Who expects mothers of young kids in the US to be away from the home?
  - nehal3m 7mo ago
    The economy
  - Earw0rm 7mo ago
    Work and wider social participation, and a sprawling suburban geography that has people living far from friends and family. The alternative - small, crowded population centres where everyone knows everyone and three, even four generations live in the same household can of course be limiting, even suffocating. But there's a reason why, for all that the 1950s autonomous nuclear family is held up as some kind of ideal by tradwife fetishists, it's also the milieu in which Valium and sleeping pills became popularised.
  - alsetmusic 7mo ago
    > Who expects mothers of young kids in the US to be away from the home? Where in the USA do you live where I can support my wife and kids on one income? We'll move immediately.
    - orthoxerox 7mo ago
      Ask single mothers.
    - stephenbez 7mo ago
      A relative of mine bought a house in central Illinois for $90k a few years ago. She's a single mom and works as a bank teller. There are plenty of places that can be afforded on a single income if you work in tech and can work remotely. Examples: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10-Regina-Dr-Paris-IL-61944/115609836_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10-Regina-Dr-Paris-IL-619... https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/804-N-Walnut-St-Pontiac-IL-61764/105627788_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/804-N-Walnut-St-Pontiac-I...

xboxnolifes 7mo ago

A __3-bedroom apartment__ is considered very tight for raising kids? How many bedrooms do you need to raise kids?

kelnos 7mo ago
It depends on how many kids you have, no? I did know other kids when I was growing up who shared a room with one or more siblings, but some parents want to be able to give each child their own bedroom. So a three-bedroom apartment might not be enough if you have three kids.
tempay 7mo ago
Raising one child is fine, raise two or three means sharing rooms not having a guest room (e.g. relatives can't stay easily) or an at-home office space. It's not that you can't, it's just that it's not the standard of living most western people expect.
tialaramex 7mo ago
If you make kids share a bedroom it drastically decreases the margin for tension between children because they don't have anywhere else. That can work, of course, but it might not and too fucking late for the kids if it doesn't. That can mean physical abuse, but it can mean things like one kid loves loud music and the other wants to read quietly alone, or their sleep schedules naturally don't align well - if you were an adult house share you'd say well, we're just incompatible, it's nobody's fault, I'll move out, but kids can't do that, they are stuck with the situation their parents created and it's all they know. My mother - I found out years after I'd left home - was worried that I resented the fact I had a small bedroom while my younger sister got a larger one - but in reality I didn't care at all, she's an artist, she makes stuff which actually exists, of course she needs space; I write software, which conveniently takes up no space, whereas if I'd had to share with her that would be extremely problematic and wouldn't have gone well. I could be in my tiny room and that was enough.
- alsetmusic 7mo ago
  Some friends were able to provide separate bedrooms to their sons last year. The older one already has a man-shaped face and body (still an adolescent voice and personality, but that's sometimes how that goes). I really couldn't believe it when I found out. I grew up privileged and had my own space, but a shared space between siblings was normalized. But going into high school with that constraint, it seems stifling. I really have to wonder what effects that lack of privacy / autonomy has on a developing mind. There are probably studies but it's not something I'm about to research.

justonceokay 7mo ago

Only on very modern times would you feel the need to have that many bedrooms for 3 kids. Of course that’s because you can’t banish the kids from the house until sunset anymore

brailsafe 7mo ago
Even two bedrooms in my city are ~$750k+

angmarsbane 6mo ago

This is IF you can find a 3 or 4 bedroom apartment in an American city. The job centers mostly build studios, 1 and 2 bedrooms if they build anything at all.